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Thread: Anyone worked with the 16196397 yet?

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  1. #1
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    Anyone worked with the 16196397 yet?

    I have the XDF from Robert Isarr, but havent' gotten everything up on the bench working yet.

    I understand that TunerproRT can support it given that I have the XDF, but seems I need to buy WinFlash from Tunercats to be able to flash the ECU? Is this correct?

    The ECU currently has the stock tune for a 3.1L alloy head V6, I will be running it on a similar architecture 3.4L engine. I THINK I need to change the following:

    VATS-need to shut it off.
    Cylinder size-need to adjust for displacement
    EGR-Turning it off for now, will be re-enabling it when I can get it plumbed in properly.
    VE adjustments-Cam is a mild upgrade, heads are a considerable upgrade.
    Injector size-Stock is 17lb, but i have both 19lb and 22lb available, stock for the engine the heads/intake came from is 22lb

    I don't think much else really has to change right now. Later, I want to fit a supercharger, but until I am more familiar with the tuning of this system, I won't be doing any forced induction. Does the MAP sensor table in this ECU have the ability to be changed for the GM 2-Bar sensor?

  2. #2
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    VATS is easy enough to disable, just do a Ctrl + F in tunerpro, do a search for VATS and disable the ~3 items that come up.

    cylinder size is adjusted through the VE tables. for whatever reason, GM chose to combine the two items into 16-bit tables. it works, but the table can't be accurately displayed as a percentage. if you're running a 3400(from the sounds of it), select the whole table, do a multiply of 1.1 and that will take care of cylinder size difference.

    EGR is simple too, do a search, find the minimum coolant temp threshold and set it to maximum.

    adjusting for cam and heads in the VE and spark tables is going to be on your own. anticipate running more advance at lower speeds and less at higher speeds. the reverse is true for the VE tables(less/similar at low RPM, more at higher speeds).

    injector size and offsets are defined in the latest XDF, I'm not sure which one is in the thread here, but my dropbox has it.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/2azz7q7s4n...02015.zip?dl=0

    as for boost.... I've been planning on patching the code to allow up to a 3BAR sensor, but I haven't gotten around to it, work has been busy, to say the least.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  3. #3
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    I am familiar with the VE/Spark tuning bits, just not familiar with a lot of the terminology. Like the displacement not being a static; I'd not expect it to be a whole 16 bit table.

    Main reason for the EGR delete is because I need to work out the plumbing, not because I don't want it. How similar is the tuning between ECUs? For instance, could the spark and VE tables from a stock 3500 ECU be entered, probably one cell at a time? This assumes that both the MAP and RPM axis are in the same locations and set the same intervals.

    I'm running a 3.4L pushrod with 3500 heads/lower/upper and since the upper is just so nice and flat, I will be cutting the top off, cleaning the plenum area out, and fitting an M62 from a Nissan Frontier or Mercedes Kompressor-both cases are a better fit than the GM offerings. The blower will come later, no big deal because the top of the plenum just pops off. Easy to just pick up another top at the parts yard for 10$.

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    you really don't need to think about the displacement weirdness beyond the initial change to the VE tables.

    OBD2 calibrations have their spark tables stored as a cylinder airmass vs RPM table, which doesn't translate directly to MAP vs RPM. so, that route isn't as easy as it could be. you would need to have some idea of what airmass is being calculated throughout the entire RPM and MAP range, which could be done through a lot of datalogging a vehicle that has the engine you want data from. alternatively, assuming you have a calibration and can read out the VE table it contains, you could apply assumed corrections(like 70*F incoming air and 100kPa barometric pressure) and end up with what is essentially a table that displays airmass in a RPM vs MAP format, which you could then figure out where the spark advance tables translate to.... with a spreadsheet, it isn't too bad to calculate, but it does require a very dialed-in VE table to be accurate.

    seems like the M62 would be fairly restrictive for the 3500 top-end... 96+ supercharged 3800s use a M90 and their heads don't flow nearly as well as the 3500 heads do. they end up running really small pulleys and push the gen3 and gen5 M90s out of their peak efficiency islands pretty quickly, a 3500 top end with an even smaller blower seems like it would suffer even more unless you're planning on running a fairly low amount of boost.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  5. #5
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    Basically, the M62 is roughly equal to a T3-60 trim turbocharger. The M90 is roughly equal to a T04B S-trim turbocharger-but limited to about 12lbs of boost in both cases. Horses for courses. I don't need super-high HP in a truck, but I do like bulk low-RPM torque.

    The truck only needs to turn 5000RPM, ever. It's not a race car, but I do use it to haul engine parts/drag cars/general abuse so low-end torque is nice to have. I may use an M90 just because I have 6 on the shelf, but I only have one M62 and it's the long-case version that won't package well. Also, it's got a T-5 transmission in it, and they're only good for about 300ft-lbs before they shatter.

    The reason the 3800SC guys are running then out of their efficiency is that they're getting power greedy. The eatons on those engines aren't designed to run at 6000 engine RPM, they were designed to give bulk torque and the sensation of speed and power at 3000RPM, which is where they're still efficient. Significant case reconfiguration is needed to get serious performance out of the GM blowers. The Ford, Jaguar, and Mercedes blowers are a lot better in this regard.

    By changing the shape of the case, I was able to go from 600CFM inlet flow, to just over 800CFM, before hitting the limit of the compressor on this M90. Raised inlet 2.4", opened from 65mm to 88mm.









    Also made it fit much better in the engine bay. Shortened the nose up to M62-length too, to fit the accessory drive.

    That said, if I knew I had the usage of the 2-bar MAP sensor, I'd just chuck a small turbo on it and call it a day. Might hunt down some Syclone badges or something, that'd be pretty awesome.
    Last edited by Xnke; 06-26-2015 at 10:33 AM.

  6. #6
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    that's certainly different.

    I've patched in 2/3 BAR support for a different mask/PCM, but I just haven't done it yet for the P66 V6 PCM. I think you're only the 3rd or 4th person to ask about it, so it hasn't been a huge priority, but maybe after this weekend, I can see if I can set aside some time to get on it.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


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