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Thread: 16144288 TBI ECM upgrade to 16168625 TBI PCM

  1. #16
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    Dave,

    Today, I followed your suggestion to flag each wire on the 4288 ECM harness with old and new locations in black and red or blue ink, respectively. Interestingly, I found some variances between the listing and my ECM harness. In a few instances, there were no wires in the locations due to the function(s) not being available on my S10, i.e., Charcoal Canister Purge Solenoid (A3), A.I.R. Converter/Port Solenoids (C1 and C2), Power Steering Pressure Switch (C8), MAT (don't know what this device is) Signal (C12), and Injector "2" Control (C15/D14)...OK no problem! In 1 or 2 instances, there were wires of different color and guage.

    In general, what do I do with pins and wires which I do NOT need? Do I just move them to the side and tape the pins and bundle them?

    With regard to the Swap Notes:
    1* I have a 700r4 but no TCC light so what do I do with this wire?
    2* Have no clue what I should do.
    3* My 4.3L does have a single wire Knock Sensor. Do I re-pin this B7 (red)?
    4* No wire and no A.I.R.
    5* My S10 is a automatic 4x4 and there is a high/low gear switch. What do I do?
    6* No problem...no wire.
    7* What is meant by "store in small connector?"
    8* No problem...no wire.

    When I re-pin the harness and install/connect the PCM 8625, what happens to the ALDL...will it still function? How do I get codes and will the Check Engine Light still work? And lastly, just out of curiosity, what kind of on-board diagnostics (OBD) will I have?

    Thanks.



    I double checked the flag notations and will make another pass tomorrow. After that, I will prepare an exact listing and post it.
    Last edited by 57 Handyman; 02-28-2015 at 10:56 PM. Reason: clarification

  2. #17
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I have some of the information you are requesting.

    Several years ago, members from Thridgen.org posted information on upgrading the Camaro TBI to the red / blue PCM. The S-10 and full size pickups have a similar wiring harness like the TBI computers.

    The TCC wire goes to Pin E11 ( there is some PCM upgrade notes floating around the internet that are not correct about the TCC wire location, use Pin E11)

    Most, maybe all red / blue PCM's will have only one knock sensor wire that goes from the knock sensor directly to the PCM *B15*. I'm thinking your S-10 has an ESC module with a wire coming from the knock sensor that is connected to the ESC module and wire going from the ESC module to the old computer. I solder the two knock sensor wires that are at the ESC module to made one continuous wire going from the knock sensor going directly to the PCM *B15*.

    There is a "Whole can of Worms" when it comes to figuring out what knock sensor or knock sensors to use when you upgrade to the red / blue PCM with the 4.3 engine. If you were upgrading a 5.7 liter V8, then you would be able use Standard Motor Products knock sensor KS6. Maybe you can use the KS6 part number? I don't know. I think some 4.3 liter V6 engines use two knock sensors, one in each head. You will need to do some "Homework" to figure out the actual part number or part numbers needed for the 4.3. I don't know the exact Make, Model, Year (engine / transmission / engine VIN Code) of the vehicle for the knock sensor you need. I'd start looking at S-10 Blazers and Pickups with the 4.3 liter TBI engine from 1993 ~ 1995 that used the red / blue PCM, with the 4L60E transmission. It's very possible you will need to two knock sensors, and will need to use the wiring diagrams to figure out how to wire them to the new red / blue PCM. Homework, Homework, and more Homework! There is the option of deleting the need for a Knock Sensor in a custom PROM chip, not sure that is a good option?

    The orange Serial Data wire needs to be relocated from the top row, Pin "E" to the lower row, Pin "M". You will need only 3 wires in the ALDL, "A", "B" and "M" the others wires you have remaining in the ALDL need to be removed.

    For the high gear switch wire, or for any wire that is not needed, I terminate the wire by double covering the connector end with heat shrink tubing. I extend the shrink tubing about 1/4" beyond the end of the unused connector. I place the unused wires in a safe place with a zip tie.

    dave w

  3. #18
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    Dave,

    Just checking back in with an update:

    Somewhere in all the reading I've done, someone mentioned that they made an old-to-new adapter which allowed them to initially keep the old connector while finalizing the tuning activities. Since I also had an extra ECM, I cut out the male-end and will connect the terminals to a red/blue pigtail I found on eBay. I plan on using each of the recommendations you've provided thus far. Do you think the adapter may interfere with and make tuning more difficult?

    With regard to the knock sensors, I found some info about using one or two sensors but like the question about which one, there is nothing definitive. More than likely, solving this issue will be one of those trial and error solutions. Since I just returned from an out of state trip, I haven't checked out the ESC module to address what goes to PCM B15. Once I confirm the ESC and wire color, I'll be better prepared.

    Lastly, what would be your recommendation regarding when to rewire the ALDL? Do you know if the use of my adapter (described above), negate the functioning of the ALDL altogether?

  4. #19
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    Wow my old post on TGO still getting around, lol. It was more a guide for general information. I had a G-van I swapped over. Personally on a single knock sensor V6 which IIRC used a sensor in the block drain, I would simply use a single 93-95 Automatic 350 TBI V8 knock sensor mounted in the block drain after bypassing the ESC module. The resistance values of two 4.3 knock sensors in parallel are almost identical to a single V8 sensor and the V6 sensor inputs on the same terminal. I would use a 4.3 TBI V6 Memcal from a 93-94 Astro van. I swapped a 7427 PCM into an 87 S15 Jimmy with a 3.1/4L60E swapped in place of the 2.8/700r4 and used a single 3.4 knock sensor on a 4.3 Memcal Knock filter without issues.
    Last edited by Fast355; 03-20-2015 at 02:39 PM.

  5. #20
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    Thanks...Fast355

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    Wow my old post on TGO still getting around, lol. It was more a guide for general information. I had a G-van I swapped over. Personally on a single knock sensor V6 which IIRC used a sensor in the block drain, I would simply use a single 93-95 Automatic 350 TBI V8 knock sensor mounted in the block drain after bypassing the ESC module. The resistance values of two 4.3 knock sensors in parallel are almost identical to a single V8 sensor and the V6 sensor inputs on the same terminal. I would use a 4.3 TBI V6 Memcal from a 93-94 Astro van. I swapped a 7427 PCM into an 87 S15 Jimmy with a 3.1/4L60E swapped in place of the 2.8/700r4 and used a single 3.4 knock sensor on a 4.3 Memcal Knock filter without issues.
    Well, there is another old saying...once on the internet, most everything stated/entered lives forever!

    I'm leaning toward using a single knock sensor and in the stock location next to the distributor on my 4.3L. Just for clarification, did you mean a 3.4 KS or should it have been 4.3? Also, are you saying you deleted the knock filter from the programming?

    Again, thanks for old and new assistance...knowledge never gets outdated!
    Last edited by 57 Handyman; 03-20-2015 at 04:18 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #21
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    Dave:

    You are correct, my '92 S10 has an ESC which I found and verified the two wires--Dark Blue from KS and Black ESC to B7--which I need to join to make a direct connection from the single KS to the old B7. What function do the other two wires--Pink/Brown and Brown--connect to or serve?

    At this point, since I will be running an old-to-new adapter with the 8625, rather than cut the black and blue wires, I will use a jumper which will allow reverting back to the stock configuration.
    Just out of curiosity, what kind of performance impact would result from not having a functioning ESC?

    As for which KS to use, FAST355 has recommended a single KS from 93-95 Auto 350 TBI.

    FAST355:

    You recommend installing a single KS in the block drain. Would using the stock location suffice? Also, would you happen to have a part number?

  7. #22
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57 Handyman View Post
    Dave:

    You are correct, my '92 S10 has an ESC which I found and verified the two wires--Dark Blue from KS and Black ESC to B7--which I need to join to make a direct connection from the single KS to the old B7. What function do the other two wires--Pink/Brown and Brown--connect to or serve?
    One wire is ground, the other is ignition power (on / start). I don't remember which is which.

    dave w

  8. #23
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    Ok thanks Dave. For the time being, I will just leave the ESC connector and wires intact. Hopefully, there won't be too much of an impact as I continue with other restoration tasks, i.e., moving vehicle around the shop for painting and other activities, etc. Until I am done with the painting, there won't be any WOT which would fall into the KS and ESC domain.

    Today, I fashioned a jumper wire to form a direct connection from the KS to B7. The motor fired and ran fine; as it idled, it didn't appear to be negatively impacted. I also identified my Digital Ratio Adapter Controller (DRAC) Module and, if needed, will make adjustments per documentation I found elsewhere on this site. In addition to the DRAC module, there was another "box" attached to my ECM. It is the one piggy-backed above the ECM. Does anyone recognize it and can tell me what it is and it's function.


    Attachment 8753Attachment 8754

    You can see in the first picture the flags suggested by Dave W to aid in the repinning later on in the process.
    Last edited by 57 Handyman; 03-23-2015 at 10:47 PM. Reason: additional information

  9. #24
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    When I got home today, my red/blue pigtail had arrived in the mail. Hurray....but as I sit here examining it, I am wondering what is the actual pin out. Does anyone have details for this? Thanks in advance.

  10. #25
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    there is some good info in here maybe it should be moved out of the introduction area to where others may be looking at it.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  11. #26
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJG1173 View Post
    there is some good info in here maybe it should be moved out of the introduction area to where others may be looking at it.
    I think that is a good idea, I'll try to move the thread later this evening. What should the title of the new thread be?

    dave w

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    I think that is a good idea, I'll try to move the thread later this evening. What should the title of the new thread be?

    dave w
    Thanks Dave and pjg...how but simple and straight forward..."ECM 4288 to PCM 8625 Swap"?

    Also, I posted the same pictures on the S10forum site and was told the gray box (piggy-back on my old ECM) is the Transfer Case Module.
    Last edited by 57 Handyman; 03-31-2015 at 06:48 PM.

  13. #28
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    It fairly straight forward a few subtle differences as noted earier. Silver box is the tccm. I wired the 8625 into my 87 Toyota with a 89 gm harnes and the factory by using the diagrams in the 7427 thread.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  14. #29
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    PJG and Dave W.

    Yesterday, it dawned upon me that I have an MSD 6AL setup which I will be installing. Will my installing an MSD system have a negative impact initially on being able to start and run my truck? I know, ultimately, the MSD will play a factor into the tuning process and be a factor which is visible in the data logging. I haven't done it yet and wanted to check if I can do it before I mess things up.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57 Handyman View Post
    PJG and Dave W.

    Yesterday, it dawned upon me that I have an MSD 6AL setup which I will be installing. Will my installing an MSD system have a negative impact initially on being able to start and run my truck? I know, ultimately, the MSD will play a factor into the tuning process and be a factor which is visible in the data logging. I haven't done it yet and wanted to check if I can do it before I mess things up.
    no it shouldn't I have CDI ignition (Crane Hi6R) in both my trucks.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

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