16197427 and a 700R4 ?

[pmkls1]

I can verify that the speed was reading correctly. And yes, I do have the box checked for "output speed not from drac" I checked that because on my conversion, I did not get speedo to display in the adx untill I did so. I will uncheck it today and see if it still displays correct speed. Also, yes, I have the tc wire on pin E10, witch was labeled as tcc. I didnt hook it to the pwm tcc wire as I figured it wouldnt work on there since this thing doesnt have a pwm tcc. I will swap the wires after trying the output seppd flag.
You said I should be applying power to pin E13, brake signal? Wouldnt applying power to that signal that the brakes are on? I did not alter the factory wiring on the truck any.

I believe that because vehicles like his truck and my car have a VSS buffer, they have the same output pulses as a DRAC so they will work properly without any other alterations. I used pin E11 instead of E10 because that is what the conversion chart specified. I would have assumed the same as you that since the solenoid is not a PWM solenoid that it would go to pin E10. I never investigated why that pin was used because it worked properly and I just left it alone. I suspect that it may have something to do with the code when altering it for TCC only functions causing the hardware to utilize that circuit.

As far as applying ignition + to pin E13 goes, it is because vehicles equipped with the 427 and a 4L60E/4L80E are wired completely different than a vehicle equipped with a 700R4 and a 747/746/730 etc..... That is what I spoke of in one of my earlier replies. Vehicles equipped with a 700R4 had the TCC solenoid energized through an ign + wire that was interrupted by the brake switch. The brake switches in most all GM vehicles from around the '70's up until recent years had 2 sections, 1 section closed a circuit when the pedal was depressed which was for the brake lamps. The second section opened a circuit when the brake pedal was depressed and this was for the TCC and Cruise Control. The ECM had no brake switch input and thus did not use brake pedal status as a part of the equation for applying or releasing the TCC. The ECM simply grounded the TCC solenoid to control it. The PCM's designed to operate electronically shifted transmissions did use a brake pedal input which was pin E13 on the 427. This is because the electronic trannys like a 4L60/80E have 2 (IIRC) ignition + wires going to them to power all of the solenoids. Since the TCC solenoid now had a constant ignition + source that was not interrupted by the brake switch they simply moved the brake switch interrupted ign+ signal over to the PCM as a monitored input. This way they could still use the same brake switch that fit nearly every vehicle they made and also not alter much on the cruise control wiring either. The PCM still simply grounded the TCC solenoid as well as all of the additional solenoids used for shifting and pressure control. They now had a brake input so when the signal to pin E13 was interrupted the PCM interpreted this as the brakes being applied and removed the ground to the solenoid.

Now, the reason that most people just transfer over one of the ign+ wires used on the 747 to the 427 brake input is because it doesn't need the extra ign+ circuit and you can leave the rest of the wiring alone as the brake switch will still interrupt the + side of the TCC solenoid. I had suggested rewiring the brake signal to go the PCM and then running a constant ign+ to the TCC so as to emulate the way that the 427 is wired but it is totally unnecessary and irrelevant to your issue.

[JeepsAndGuns]

So when the 7427 get power to pin E13, it thinks the brakes are not on, and no power to that pin it thinks you are putting on the brakes?

I tried changing the speed signal not from drac back, made no difference, but like you said, speed on the datalog dash still read, and read correctly. We then tried swapping the tcc wires, E10 to E11. Still no dice. We unfourtnately ran out of time again, as he needed to go home after lunch. Also, I had forgotten about it, he is off work untill the first of the year. He's is having total knee replacement surgery. So we hooked the old ecm back up and we will pick this project back up when hes back on his feet.

If the brake input is wired like above, that may be the problem. I will add the wire to my adapter harness and we will give it another go in a couple months.
Question, is that brake input used only for tcc operation? In my 7427 conversion in my manual trans jeep, I have nothing hooked to that pin, would adding the wire change anything?

[EagleMark]

So when the 7427 get power to pin E13, it thinks the brakes are not on, and no power to that pin it thinks you are putting on the brakes?

Not sure on the 7427 pins but yes, that is correct. Power on brake off, power off brake on. On the 7747 the TCC solinoid has power all the time and when TCC is commanded the ECM sets the ground. If you hit the brakes the power is removed and TCC unlocks, it will not engage TCC again untill TPS position is increased past idle with brake not applied of course. Hope that helps you get 7427 wired right.

[pmkls1]

Yes, you are correct. The PCM gets ignition switched voltage to pin E13 that runs through the brake switch. Applying voltage = no brake apply; No voltage = brakes applied. The brake switch interrupts the signal by opening the circuit when you apply the brakes. That circuit is separate from the brake lamp circuit in the stitch and there are separate connectors on the brake switch. The brake switch input is only for TCC operation and technically shouldn't affect anything on a manual trans vehicle. After you add the wire to that pin you should get TCC operation I'm quite sure.

The only reason I ever mentioned rewiring the brake switch earlier is because the PCM will see when the brakes are applied and you can see this in data logs. Because I had mentioned rewiring the brake switch I wanted to know if you had made any wiring changes that could have possibly affected the TCC operation.

[pmkls1]

After seeing the schematic Mark posted I remembered a nifty little trick that you can do that helps when diagnosing TCC issues on 700 R4 and 200 4R equipped vehicles. You can ground terminal F of the ALDL connector and manually control the TCC solenoid. If the wiring and TCC solenoid are good then you will have lock-up regardless of the ECM command state. You can ground that terminal with the shifter in any position and the vehicle moving or stationary. Because of the mechanical workings inside the trans, the TCC solenoid can be energized, but the pressurized fluid will only make it to the converter apply piston in gears 2, 3, & 4. That is a very quick way to test TCC operation on a vehicle to aid in diagnostics. It also can lower ET's at the drag strip especially on vehicles with a looser converter. Just a little FYI

[RobertISaar]

apparently the grand national guys have used that trick for a while, lowers their ETs by close to half a second IIRC.

kills the TCC eventually, but it is an interesting result.

[pmkls1]

apparently the grand national guys have used that trick for a while, lowers their ETs by close to half a second IIRC.

kills the TCC eventually, but it is an interesting result.

That is where I picked the trick up a long time ago. Using it for those purposes will shorten the life of a lot of components in the trans. But typically if you're down to trying to pick up a few more tenths of a second at the strip you're not worrying about longevity anymore. Back about 15 years ago I used a toggle switch on an '87 Trans Am of mine to retain the TCC function after I had replaced the computer controlled carb and dizzy for a Carter AFB and an old big cap HEI. It worked for a very long time before something finally crapped out on me. I never got around to diagnosing the issue because not too long after that the engine had a little explosion and lightly charred the front of the car. That failure was actually caused by a hanging float on a Holley carb that I had installed later. That wasn't the only time that I had an issue with a Holley doing the exact same thing. So nowadays I'm a little jaded and am biased toward Edelbrock carbs which are just a re-branded carter AFB.

[EagleMark]

I was at a trans shop this week and they had a TCC cutaway. After seeing how little clutch it had I think I'll be releasing lockup at lower MAP to disengage under load...

[RobertISaar]

keep in mind different converters have vastly different sized clutches.

i'd LIKE to have a converter that would hold up to a good 400 ft-lb of load..... could basically lock it as soon as hitting 2nd gear and keep it locked at pretty much all times above that.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Its stock, so we dont want to do anything that will cause damage to the tcc or trans. I will add the power wire to the brake pin on my harness and we will give it a try when he gets back on his feet.
We both thank all of yall for all your help through this.

[pmkls1]

Its stock, so we dont want to do anything that will cause damage to the tcc or trans. I will add the power wire to the brake pin on my harness and we will give it a try when he gets back on his feet.
We both thank all of yall for all your help through this.

You don't need to worry about doing any of that other stuff, it was just a little FYI for anyone watching the thread. I'm confident that once you get power to pin E13 you will have TCC operation again. Be sure that once you verify that you can get TCC operation that you go back to the TCC parameters in the stock BJYL bin because the ones in mine are modified a lot. And you are quite welcome. I'm happy to help any time that I can.

I was at a trans shop this week and they had a TCC cutaway. After seeing how little clutch it had I think I'll be releasing lockup at lower MAP to disengage under load...

As long as you're fairly close to stock on the load parameters you're fine. Although it is easy to burn up the clutch linings in most O.E. style converters, most converter failures are due to constant cycling and too much slip allowed in units with PWM controls. I actually recently began having issues with a bad shudder in 4th gear lockup after the load passes a certain point. I had raised the load thresholds some because I was getting too much cycling activity when cruising and evidently I went too far. At this point I haven't determined wether it is the converter or the 3-4 clutch pack because it could be either one. But the end result is the same, the converter needs replaced and the trans rebuilt. I'm not very heartbroken though because I've been wanting to swap in a 4L60E for a long time now.

keep in mind different converters have vastly different sized clutches.

i'd LIKE to have a converter that would hold up to a good 400 ft-lb of load..... could basically lock it as soon as hitting 2nd gear and keep it locked at pretty much all times above that.

For the most part at least in GM applications the stock converter clutches are usually pretty dinky. You can raise the holding capacity a little by adding apply pressure, but the other downside of most stock converters is that the clutch apply plate flexes too easily so you end up back at square one. You can get some pretty wild converters for a lot of different transmissions if you have the $$$$ to throw down.

[JeepsAndGuns]

You don't need to worry about doing any of that other stuff, it was just a little FYI for anyone watching the thread. I'm confident that once you get power to pin E13 you will have TCC operation again. Be sure that once you verify that you can get TCC operation that you go back to the TCC parameters in the stock BJYL bin because the ones in mine are modified a lot. And you are quite welcome. I'm happy to help any time that I can.

We ran out of time before I tried the bin with your parameters in it, so I will stay with the stock BJYL bin parameters when I try it again.

[pmkls1]

We ran out of time before I tried the bin with your parameters in it, so I will stay with the stock BJYL bin parameters when I try it again.

I would definitely recommend that because he would definitely think you screwed his truck up if you ran the parameters from my bin lol.