16197427 and a 700R4 ?

[shane300zx]

Im interested in this also. I have an upcoming project that was a 60e and now going 700r4

[pmkls1]

So, after all this time, has anyone had a confirmed successful attempt at running a 700R4 with a 7427?
Me and my co-worked are still curious to try a 7427 swap, but I'm not gonna waste my time hooking up my adapter harness and starting on a bin for his truck if I can not get the tcc to work as it should. Auto trans parameters are over my head (I'm a manual trans guy myself...lol)
So hoping by now someone may have gotten it to work and would be kind enough to share the bin file.

This thread is a little old, so I'm not sure what changes have been made to the xdf and adx files since this thread was started, but yes I have been running this setup for over 6 months and 10k miles now. The latest xdf and adx files available here and on the tunerpro site for v5 have all of the parameters and the flag to properly operate the tcc function on a 700r4. The xdf has some great tips that help to set up your bin properly. I'll upload my latest bin and one I found on this site for reference. An important warning on my bin is that I have the parameters set so that the tcc will not unlock when you let off the gas to coast and that's why I'm loading the other bin which can also be found on this site which is basically a stock BJYL bin that someone has modified to work with a 700r4. I'll go ahead and upload the xdf and adx file that I use as well. My adx is modified to enable the maptrace function, but that is easy to change and the only change I have made. Everything is fairly easy and straight forward IMHO. You can basically enable the tcc only function by checking the flag and then modify the paramaters after driving to suit driver preference. For safety purposes I recommend making an additional wiring change different from the conversion schematics found on this site. Pin number E13 on the 7427 PCM is a brake switch input that most people will use the wire from pin C16 on the 747 ECM as it supplies a constant +12v when running. I prefer to go ahead and run a switched brake input to terminal E13 when using the 7427 PCM so that the PCM sees the brake switch input. This doesn't really affect anything for this conversion as the brake switch interrupts power to the tcc anyway. But, if a 4l60e is swapped in later and wired in properly the TCC solenoid will stay energized because the power does not run through the brake switch. HTH,
Phil

[JeepsAndGuns]

Cool, I will have to check out that bin. What bin did you start with, so I can do a compare and see what all you have changed.
Since my co-workers truck is 100% stock, I will simply use a stock 350 bin and change the needed 700r4 parameters.

[pmkls1]

Cool, I will have to check out that bin. What bin did you start with, so I can do a compare and see what all you have changed.
Since my co-workers truck is 100% stock, I will simply use a stock 350 bin and change the needed 700r4 parameters.

I started with a BJYL bin. The BJYL 700r4 bin that I uploaded is just a copy of what somebody else uploaded to the site in the ecm info section. My bin is extensively modified because I am running an L31 engine with the tbi unit on top of a 4bbl intake. The details of my setup are listed in my sig. The combination of the engine I have and the high fuel pressure I run required the extent of modification to the original bin image I began with. So in other words, don't pay attention to any of the parameters outside of the tcc operation. The BJYL 700r4 bin, on the other hand, is almost a "plug-n-play" bin for a stock L05 in an older truck since it was used on an L05 engine to begin with. My bin would still make a good comparison bin as I have modified the tcc parameters to suit my personal preferences and it is pretty different from stock. Somthing to keep in mind, though, is that I have a Firebird which is going to be able to handle more of a load before requiring the tcc to unlock because it is a much lighter vehicle. This is important to remember because you can damage the converter or the 3/4 clutch pack by placing too much load on the vehicle with the tcc applied. But don't let me scare you with all this info because it is very simple to make everything work properly.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Having the tcc perform exactly as it did stock with a 7747 would be perfectly fine. He's not a gearhead like us (even though he is a mechanic) He doesnt drive wild like us youg lead feet...lol. But he does want it to go when he wants it to. I did a little work to a 7747 bin and put it in his truck and he said the difference was night and day. I remember talking to him about my 7427 swap and how much better my engine ran after the swap, so that made us curious to try it on his. I just wasnt sure if we could get it working with the tcc. We definately want to keep that feature.

[pmkls1]

Having the tcc perform exactly as it did stock with a 7747 would be perfectly fine. He's not a gearhead like us (even though he is a mechanic) He doesnt drive wild like us youg lead feet...lol. But he does want it to go when he wants it to. I did a little work to a 7747 bin and put it in his truck and he said the difference was night and day. I remember talking to him about my 7427 swap and how much better my engine ran after the swap, so that made us curious to try it on his. I just wasnt sure if we could get it working with the tcc. We definately want to keep that feature.

Honestly, if you start with the BJYL 700r4 bin you will probably only have to make some minor tweaks and you'll have a finished tune. The tcc parameters for a 700r4 in the $0D mask are different than a 746 or 747 ecm so it will probably take a couple test drives to get the lock and unlock thresholds right because they are going to vary depending on vehicle weight and gearing. Having converted a vehicle originally equipped with a 746 ecm to the 427, I am confident that he will be amazed with the difference though. Good luck, and let us know how it goes,

Phil

[JeepsAndGuns]

I am running a manual trans, so I never looked into it with my swap. But when using a 7427 with the 700r4, where do you hook the park/neautral switch to the 7427? Seems I have read somewhere on here it was one of the "range" inputs, but I dont know witch one.

[pmkls1]

The P/N wire should be orange with a black stripe and located at pin B10 on the 747 ECM. That wire goes to terminal E5 on the 427 PCM. The 747 ECM also has a wire for the 4th gear switch that the 427 PCM does not use so you'll just have to tape it up or something to that effect. Just an FYI, the 700r4 will only lock up in gears 2-4 regardless of wether the TCC solenoid is energized or not. The only reason that the ECMs originally used with 700's used the 4th gear switch was to use a different load map and mph thresholds for 4th gear TCC control versus gears 2 & 3. There really isn't a need for so many TCC parameters. The load-based TCC parameters in the xdf for the $OD mask are simplified and use a 2D table that uses TPS% and vehicle speed. The older ECMs used 3D tables based on engine load and vehicle speed. Anyhow, I'm overcomplicating a simple question now lol. Here's a link to the thread that covered the swap for your reference http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...light=16197427 . But I'll still gladly answer any questions you have as I had a few myself that weren't answered in the thread.

[dave w]

Usually, for the '427 PCM, pin E5 is used for an automatic transmission (4L60E / 4L80E) will be used for Trans Range C input. I find it very interesting the old '7747 P/N switch is wired to E5. It's my understanding that the '7747 P/N switch is sending ground to the ECM when the P/N switch is in either park or neutral position. I wonder what Trans Range C input (ground when in park / neutral) is telling the 4L60E/4L80E? Does Range C at ground disable TCC?

dave w

[pmkls1]

Usually, for the '427 PCM, pin E5 is used for an automatic transmission (4L60E / 4L80E) will be used for Trans Range C input. I find it very interesting the old '7747 P/N switch is wired to E5. It's my understanding that the '7747 P/N switch is sending ground to the ECM when the P/N switch is in either park or neutral position. I wonder what Trans Range C input (ground when in park / neutral) is telling the 4L60E/4L80E? Does Range C at ground disable TCC?

dave w

That's an interesting question Dave. I think that you may be looking at things the wrong way if I understand your question correctly. The range switches simply tell the PCM what range you have selected on the shifter. There are only 3 range switches (A B C) but the PCM can determine what range is selected out of 7 different possible positions (P R N D 3 2 1). This is done by the switch grounding the 3 signal circuits in a specific combination (on on off, on off on, etc....) much like the way that it only requires 2 shift solenoids to obtain 4 differend forward gears. It just so happens that out of coincidence you only have to ground the range C input for the PCM to think that the gear selector is in park or neutral. These inputs were solely for the PCM for shifting purposes and the typical lower rev limiter etc..... As far as the transmission part of the equation, a combination of the manual shift valve and solenoid inputs "tell" the transmission what to do. In all but the newer style of electronic transmissions GM makes, there is still a lot of mechanical control of the transmission and the electronic portions are adapted to the mechanical design. Even though certain transmissions like the 4L80E, 4T80E, & 4T40/45E lines never had a full mechanical predecessor like the 4L60E did, they are still designed much like a "typical" mechanically operated transmission with electronic components "adapted" to the design. This is why they all still have relatively large and complex valve bodies. The newer designs like the 6L50/80/90E and the 6T70E have much smaller and simpler valve bodies and extremely small solenoid packs/TCM assemblies. Although it was a horrible transmission, the Chrysler A604/41TE utilized this concept in 1989. The actual reason those things were such a disaster wasn't due to the design principle of the shift control mechanism, but due to crappy components and the requirement of a special trans fluid with specifically engineered friction modifiers that mos people didn't use. As a matter of fact it's a little off topic, but I've got a PT Cruiser down by the basement with a burned up tranny that's most likely due to improper fluid being used. I know it was a bit of a long rant, but did that address your question ? lol

[JeepsAndGuns]

B10 to E5, thats what I needed to know. I knew I had read the answer somewhere on here, but could not find where and couldnt remember it.

[pmkls1]

B10 to E5, thats what I needed to know. I knew I had read the answer somewhere on here, but could not find where and couldnt remember it.

Well, if you wanna just cut to the chase and skip over all of the unnecessary ramblings, then that's your answer lol. I just thought you might wanna spend your saturday afternoon sorting through a bunch of irrelevant info lol j/k

[JeepsAndGuns]

Nothing wrong with it, the extra info is helpfull.
I too have been accused of "ask him the time and he will tell you how to build a watch"

[EagleMark]

There is also an XDF for this but the zip folder was corrupt, it is now fixed in the $0D info thread. And attactched.

[Six_Shooter]

Just to get technical, the 3 inputs (A, B, C) could provide up to 8 states of input. It's just that one state isn't used in this application. ;)