Need MORE help with TunerPro

[rsicard]

It would help alot if you posted your .BIN file and the actual initial timing value you are running with the EST connector disconnected. Also post the datalog definition file you are running. It may be a problem between the .XDF you are using and the .ADX file.

For example if you have the initial timing set at 10* BTDC, have the .BIN file set at 0* your crank timing will read 10* higher with the timing light than the Tunerpro Datalog. If you have both the initial timing set at 10*, you .bin set at 10* and your .ADX has no compensation it would also read off. Post what you are using and maybe I can help shine some light on it.

Also just FYI, running lean will likely hurt your emissions. Your best bet is to keep it in the 14.2-14.7 range and pull about 6-8* of timing out of the test area. When you run it lean your mixture will not fully combust despite raised combustion temperatures and you will have a spike of unburned Hydrocarbons (HC) and Nitrogen Oxides.

Back when my old 83 G20 van still had the original quadrajet fed 305 in it, I used to block off the vacuum advance with a BB prior to the yearly smog test. It would easily pass with the timing retarded and almost always failed with the timing at factory spec.

In response to your suggestions, attached find the Binary, ADX, XDF and latest datalog files being used on 16197427 PCM on the 350 Vortec with 454 throttle body and supposed Cop Car injectors. Set the ignition timing to zero degrees on the balancer with a timing light with the one wire disconnected coming from the distributor to the PCM. Then reattached this wire. Used the timing light and saw the ignition timing retarded -10 degrees from zero degrees. Puzzling. Advance the throttle and the timing may go 10 degrees advanced yet the TunerPro screen says 20+ degrees advanced yet the strobed balancer says 10 degrees advanced. More puzzling. May have a defective spare 1 16197427 PCM?

Also replaced the IAC motor with a new one after the log reported IAC fail. Last run (attached) after several minutes IAC went FAIL again. More puzzling. Again, possibly defective spare 1 PCM?

Will remove 16197427 PCM from my 1994 454 suburban and use it for testing after replacing the flash chip. Then record another session.

[rsicard]

It would help alot if you posted your .BIN file and the actual initial timing value you are running with the EST connector disconnected. Also post the datalog definition file you are running. It may be a problem between the .XDF you are using and the .ADX file.

For example if you have the initial timing set at 10* BTDC, have the .BIN file set at 0* your crank timing will read 10* higher with the timing light than the Tunerpro Datalog. If you have both the initial timing set at 10*, you .bin set at 10* and your .ADX has no compensation it would also read off. Post what you are using and maybe I can help shine some light on it.

Also just FYI, running lean will likely hurt your emissions. Your best bet is to keep it in the 14.2-14.7 range and pull about 6-8* of timing out of the test area. When you run it lean your mixture will not fully combust despite raised combustion temperatures and you will have a spike of unburned Hydrocarbons (HC) and Nitrogen Oxides.

Back when my old 83 G20 van still had the original quadrajet fed 305 in it, I used to block off the vacuum advance with a BB prior to the yearly smog test. It would easily pass with the timing retarded and almost always failed with the timing at factory spec.

Also, using binary for TBI 350 Vortec. If you can shed some light on the situation and provide suggestions, that would be greatly appreciated.

[sturgillbd]

Earlier in the thread, you asked about data tracing. I misunderstood what you were asking. I thought you were asking about data tracing (bubble tracing) not just data acquisition. Bubble tracing was what I posted the link to. I just replayed your datalog. Two things stood out that need to be addressed. Your data shows that you are pig rich. Do you have a vacuum leak? If not, what is your fuel pressure? The other thing that stands out is you are idling over 1000 RPM. Your IAC is at 0 counts and still your RPM is high. Have you performed a throttle blade adjustment (minimum air)? If the throttle blades are open too far, the IAC will bottom out trying to bring the idle down and will show a failure. First thing I would do is set the minimum air adjustment on the throttle body. There are several methods to do this. With the 7427, you cannot bridge the A and B terminal to close the IAC so you will have to adjust it down until the IAC takes some control of the idle. Shut off the ignition but leave the battery power wire connected. Restart and let the data show it is back in closed loop. Check the IAC counts. I usually aim for around 20 counts with the engine idling at the desired rpm. With your data showing that rich, you may have a surging idle until you get the idle ve adjusted. You have to make sure you have no vacuum leaks before adjusting the idle ve table though. You have to have the proper knock sensor installed and hooked up or you will be getting knock counts like you see in your log. The bin you posted is stock and you have not adjusted anything other than the Mask ID from 0D to AA.

[rsicard]

You NEED to have the battery wire connected to the battery. There are certain things that happen AFTER the ignition is shut off that pertains to the IAC and other functions to ensure proper start up up the next time. Fix this first and foremost.

I'm not sure why you want to disable closed loop right now, but you can disable it in the bin by setting the closed loop enable temp to max.

There is a single wire input for the neutral safety switch that needs to see a ground to know that it is either in park or drive. IIRC when grounded the ECM thinks it's in park.

Unable to find a ECM pin for a discrete for park or drive. Moved the battery input to the battery. Also replaced the IAC motor with new. Ran the engine, then something popped and now sounds like big vacuum leak. Took throttle body off, chunk of gasket gone. Filled the gap with Loctite 509 sealer. Also going to put in smaller injectors to see if the running rich situation gets any better. Smaller injectors are used so condition not known. Will run the engine again tomorrow morning. Debugging, debugging and so on.

[fastacton]

E5 should be the correct ECM pin for park/neutral on the '7427

[rsicard]

Earlier in the thread, you asked about data tracing. I misunderstood what you were asking. I thought you were asking about data tracing (bubble tracing) not just data acquisition. Bubble tracing was what I posted the link to. I just replayed your datalog. Two things stood out that need to be addressed. Your data shows that you are pig rich. Do you have a vacuum leak? If not, what is your fuel pressure? The other thing that stands out is you are idling over 1000 RPM. Your IAC is at 0 counts and still your RPM is high. Have you performed a throttle blade adjustment (minimum air)? If the throttle blades are open too far, the IAC will bottom out trying to bring the idle down and will show a failure. First thing I would do is set the minimum air adjustment on the throttle body. There are several methods to do this. With the 7427, you cannot bridge the A and B terminal to close the IAC so you will have to adjust it down until the IAC takes some control of the idle. Shut off the ignition but leave the battery power wire connected. Restart and let the data show it is back in closed loop. Check the IAC counts. I usually aim for around 20 counts with the engine idling at the desired rpm. With your data showing that rich, you may have a surging idle until you get the idle ve adjusted. You have to make sure you have no vacuum leaks before adjusting the idle ve table though. You have to have the proper knock sensor installed and hooked up or you will be getting knock counts like you see in your log. The bin you posted is stock and you have not adjusted anything other than the Mask ID from 0D to AA.

Thanks much for the detailed response which are greatly appreciated. Will try to make certain there are NO VACUUM LEAKS. Understand being pig rich. Can see is on BPW. Changing out injectors for smaller ones and fixing a vacuum leak that just broke and made a lot of noise. Discovered chunk of gasket is gone. Patched with Loctite 509 sealant. Letting it set up and will run the engine again tomorrow. Also using another 16197427 ECM with the same binary file on Flash Chip. This is a 454 throttle body on a 4 barrel manifold with adapter plate. Manifold hogged out to accommodate 454 2 inch bores throttle body which has idle adjustment on vacuum actuator. Fabbed a bracket to replace vacuum actuator. Throttle plates are closing fairly tight at idle. Do have surging at 2000+ RPM, it is associated with ignition timing. The two go in unison. Ignition timing is screwed up. Set base timing with wire from distributor to ECM to zero degrees with timing light on balancer.

[rsicard]

E5 should be the correct ECM pin for park/neutral on the '7427

Went to a pin-out of the 16197427 ECM, and it says E5 is for the 4L80E trans Range C signal. If there is a more accurate Pin-Out of this ECM, would like to know where to get same. See attached.

[fastacton]

If you look at this post, it shows to connect the 7747 park neutral wire to E5 when converting to the 7427. There's another post that goes into more detail, but it didn't come up in my quick search.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...7+park+neutral

There 3 range signals from the transmission going to the 7427, different combinations of these 3 tell the ECM what gear the trans is in. Grounding only E5 tells it that it's in neutral. I don't think there's a wiring diagram that will tell you that, though.

[rsicard]

If you look at this post, it shows to connect the 7747 park neutral wire to E5 when converting to the 7427. There's another post that goes into more detail, but it didn't come up in my quick search.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...7+park+neutral

There 3 range signals from the transmission going to the 7427, different combinations of these 3 tell the ECM what gear the trans is in. Grounding only E5 tells it that it's in neutral. I don't think there's a wiring diagram that will tell you that, though.

Really want to say thanks for all the help.

[Hirevver59]

Wow. You guys are WAAAAAY over my head...but maybe I can learn/u can help. I have a 1994 LT1 out of a trans am in my 1991 s/10 blazer....how I bought it. TONS of problems w optispark and LT1 so I bought tuner pro. The owner told me I also need to buy another $20 program...cant remember the name....tunercat maybe? I have no stickers on my pcm. Can u possibly help me with bin #s and the .adx and .xdf (i think?) Files and such? I would be very thankful. I hate bothering Mark....the owner of tunerpro. Thank u in advance!
Joe