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Thread: Stock computer/Stock tune Datalogging?

  1. #1
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    Stock computer/Stock tune Datalogging?

    this question may have been answered elsewhere but i cant seem to find a clear answer here. I just got a apu1 setup from moates and i was wondering if i can just hook up to my truck and begin dataloggin the stock computer. i have a 94 k2500 which i just built a new motor for and after ironing the wrinkles from the holley 670 tbi, i have an issue which i believe is a fuel map issue. heres some background: timing is set to 0 degrees with est disconnected, with it connected it idles at 16 degrees, and when the motor revs up the timing follows suit. ive got no vacuum leaks, the motor holds a nice 21'' at idle and idles smooth. BUT, in open loop at an idle, you can stab the throttle and it is very responsive and has no issues, when it goes into closed loop the idle still stays smooth but if you get on the throttle right away it wants to cut out and stall and backfire through the tbi. but if you ease into the throttle you can keep it running. In drive, the same thing. And i have moved the MAP vacuum to a manifold source, not the port at the back of the tbi. i have the stock computer and stock tune in there, so i wanted to datalog it and see what its trying to tell me. i just wasnt sure if i could do that with a stock computer. and if i can do i need a bin or xdf file to datalog. i will be using TunerPro RT.
    1994 k2500 Extra Cab 7"Lift 4.88's 35's, 353ci 4 bolt main small block, forged/balanced rotating assembly, dart 180 64cc shp aluminum heads, edelbrock tbi manifold, holley 670cfm, comp cams 08-525-8, long tube headers, custom 2.5'' mandrel bent x-pipe exhaust with flowmaster 40's, custom built 4l60e
    1966 Chevy II SS (my first love <3)

  2. #2
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    All you need is the proper ADX. Then just plug it in and data log.
    If the truck in your sig line is the one you are talking about, and you have a 4L60E, then you most likely will need a $0D xdf.

    Edit: My bad, I accidently put XDF when I ment to put ADX.
    Last edited by JeepsAndGuns; 03-06-2015 at 05:32 PM.
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  3. #3
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    gotcha, but the adx i find on the web, is that going to be exactly the same as what is in my computer in my truck? or is it the same, and different people have been changing it around for years? I saw HDR1 from moates.net that lets you read the stock memcal, only with the memcal out of the truck. I was hoping to be able to hookup to the truck without introducing foreign files.

    update, the truck was not to driveable this morning, even in open loop now it wouldnt accept throttle, stalled about 13 times. interesting...
    1994 k2500 Extra Cab 7"Lift 4.88's 35's, 353ci 4 bolt main small block, forged/balanced rotating assembly, dart 180 64cc shp aluminum heads, edelbrock tbi manifold, holley 670cfm, comp cams 08-525-8, long tube headers, custom 2.5'' mandrel bent x-pipe exhaust with flowmaster 40's, custom built 4l60e
    1966 Chevy II SS (my first love <3)

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    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    gotcha, but the adx i find on the web, is that going to be exactly the same as what is in my computer in my truck?
    your ecm spits out a stream of data through a really simple serial port (for an 8192 baud ecm, that stream of data is only sent when a request is sent for it).

    the adx file tells tunerpro how to interpret that data and convert it to useful things like 'rpm' and 'o2 sensor voltage', as well as how to request the data. different ecms have different data formats

    adx file also contains info on how to display/graph/report on that stuff.

    you don't need an xdf file or bin yet, the xdf file tells tunerpro how to interpret the data in your bin and has nothing to do with datalogging. they're two completely different systems

    I saw HDR1 from moates.net that lets you read the stock memcal, only with the memcal out of the truck. I was hoping to be able to hookup to the truck without introducing foreign files.
    using an adx file and logging data doesn't modify or change anything about your ecm, it has the same capabilities as a 'scanner'. read-only.

    update, the truck was not to driveable this morning, even in open loop now it wouldnt accept throttle, stalled about 13 times.
    fuel pressure?

  5. #5
    Fuel Injected! Roadknee's Avatar
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    The adx files have been developed to read the datastream from specific ecm's running specific code. They are not specific to a given ecm in a single vehicle. Provided your laptop with TunerPro RT installed recognizes the APU1, and the ALDL cable is connected to the APU1 you should be able to datalog. I've attached the ADX file I like to use.

    If you're still running the stock chip with the engine in your sig the tune is not going to even be close. You have a lot of room for improvement. To make changes you will need to remove the memcal from your truck, use the HDR1 to read the stock chip with the APU1, and plug the ribbon cable from the APU1 to your ECM using the G1 adapter. Purchase the HDR1 and GP1 (which includes G1 and chips) from Moates.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadknee View Post
    The adx files have been developed to read the datastream from specific ecm's running specific code. They are not specific to a given ecm in a single vehicle. Provided your laptop with TunerPro RT installed recognizes the APU1, and the ALDL cable is connected to the APU1 you should be able to datalog. I've attached the ADX file I like to use.

    If you're still running the stock chip with the engine in your sig the tune is not going to even be close. You have a lot of room for improvement. To make changes you will need to remove the memcal from your truck, use the HDR1 to read the stock chip with the APU1, and plug the ribbon cable from the APU1 to your ECM using the G1 adapter. Purchase the HDR1 and GP1 (which includes G1 and chips) from Moates.
    I have g1 already and apu1, i just havent installed g1 yet. i didnt see hdr1 when i was making my order so i have to go back an buy it. and yes the truck in my sig is what im refering too, heres the specs:
    It's .020 over, 4 bolt main one piece block, with a sealed power 2403 forged stock replacement flat top piston with 4 valve relief and -13.5cc dish, i cut the wrist pins down and added a channel for double tru-arcs, so now its a floating setup, scat 5.700 forged i beam rods (3.480 stroke), liberty performance ZR forged crank, rotating assembly balanced within 1 gr, piston is .005 out of the hole meaning the deck is cut .030, i got a set of dart shp 180 64cc straight plug aluminum heads with 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust stainless steel valves, comp cams springs/retainers, three angle valve job, backcut valves, harland sharp 1.5 roller rockers, comp cams 08-525-8 hyd roller (800-5000 rpm, 194/206 @.050, .470/.464 w/ 1.5 and 116 LSA), dual row timing chain, sealed power roller lifters, edelbrock performer tbi manifold (i radiused the bore holes as opposed to boring them open) holley 670cfm tbi (newer version), MSD 6al, MSD pro billet 8366 distributor, MSD stock replacement coil, MSD 8.5mm wires, AC Delco R43XLS plugs, hedman long tube headers, custom 2.5'' mandrel bent xpipe exhaust w/ flowmaster 40's, custom 4l60e. (Static compression of the motor is 9.4:1 and should have no issues making 1hp per cubic inch).

    but until i get hdr1 i can just use your .adx for datalogging purposes ?

    steveo: fuel pressure is 12.5 psi right now with the injectors that came with holleys 670cfm tbi. not sure of lb/hr
    1994 k2500 Extra Cab 7"Lift 4.88's 35's, 353ci 4 bolt main small block, forged/balanced rotating assembly, dart 180 64cc shp aluminum heads, edelbrock tbi manifold, holley 670cfm, comp cams 08-525-8, long tube headers, custom 2.5'' mandrel bent x-pipe exhaust with flowmaster 40's, custom built 4l60e
    1966 Chevy II SS (my first love <3)

  7. #7
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    steveo: fuel pressure is 12.5 psi right now with the injectors that came with holleys 670cfm tbi. not sure of lb/hr
    yeah but does it drop while it's stumbling?

    but until i get hdr1 i can just use your .adx for datalogging purposes ?
    the HDR1, memcal, and bin has nothing to do with datalogging, past the fact that the ADX file you use needs to be of the appropriate type for your currently running bin's MASK (that's the two letter code).

    i'll quote my own post again

    your ecm spits out a stream of data through a really simple serial port (for an 8192 baud ecm, that stream of data is only sent when a request is sent for it).

    the adx file tells tunerpro how to interpret that data and convert it to useful things like 'rpm' and 'o2 sensor voltage', as well as how to request the data. different ecms have different data formats

    adx file also contains info on how to display/graph/report on that stuff.

    you don't need an xdf file or bin yet, the xdf file tells tunerpro how to interpret the data in your bin and has nothing to do with datalogging. they're two completely different systems

  8. #8
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    i understand, roadknee posted an adx i can use. I havent driven around with a fuel pressure gauge hooked up yet or with the laptop hooked up yet, but when i have it idling and it goes into closed loop and stalls, the gauge would stay at 12.5 with very very little deflection, and when the truck stalled pressure dropped to 11.
    1994 k2500 Extra Cab 7"Lift 4.88's 35's, 353ci 4 bolt main small block, forged/balanced rotating assembly, dart 180 64cc shp aluminum heads, edelbrock tbi manifold, holley 670cfm, comp cams 08-525-8, long tube headers, custom 2.5'' mandrel bent x-pipe exhaust with flowmaster 40's, custom built 4l60e
    1966 Chevy II SS (my first love <3)

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    There are really two different computer connections to make. One is to make changes to the ecm program. The other is to monitor what the ecm is seeing and reporting. The ALDL is for monitoring. It was used by dealership technicians originally and has no connection with the ecm program. All you need to use it is an ALDL cable and monitoring software. Tunerpro can monitor with the ADX posted earlier. Luckily, you can play around with that portion of tunerpro without much worry of making a mistake.

    The tuning side of things, actually making changes to the program, is where the G1, APU1, HDR1, and XDF files come into play. I'd recommend focusing on getting connected to the ALDL and monitoring data first, just to get the hang of things.

    Your senses are just as valid with EFI as they were with a carb. Is the exhaust rich? Are the plugs loaded up? Does the engine slowly die like it's loading up or flat out stall?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    There are really two different computer connections to make. One is to make changes to the ecm program. The other is to monitor what the ecm is seeing and reporting. The ALDL is for monitoring. It was used by dealership technicians originally and has no connection with the ecm program. All you need to use it is an ALDL cable and monitoring software. Tunerpro can monitor with the ADX posted earlier. Luckily, you can play around with that portion of tunerpro without much worry of making a mistake.

    The tuning side of things, actually making changes to the program, is where the G1, APU1, HDR1, and XDF files come into play. I'd recommend focusing on getting connected to the ALDL and monitoring data first, just to get the hang of things.

    Your senses are just as valid with EFI as they were with a carb. Is the exhaust rich? Are the plugs loaded up? Does the engine slowly die like it's loading up or flat out stall?
    i havent checked the plugs yet cause its only got about a half hour of idle time and maybe 20 minutes of actual drive time. it doesnt smell rich, and no black soot on the pipes. but when it goes to die slowly, and it back fires through the tbi it does spurt some gas with it.
    1994 k2500 Extra Cab 7"Lift 4.88's 35's, 353ci 4 bolt main small block, forged/balanced rotating assembly, dart 180 64cc shp aluminum heads, edelbrock tbi manifold, holley 670cfm, comp cams 08-525-8, long tube headers, custom 2.5'' mandrel bent x-pipe exhaust with flowmaster 40's, custom built 4l60e
    1966 Chevy II SS (my first love <3)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadknee View Post
    The adx files have been developed to read the datastream from specific ecm's running specific code. They are not specific to a given ecm in a single vehicle. Provided your laptop with TunerPro RT installed recognizes the APU1, and the ALDL cable is connected to the APU1 you should be able to datalog. I've attached the ADX file I like to use.

    If you're still running the stock chip with the engine in your sig the tune is not going to even be close. You have a lot of room for improvement. To make changes you will need to remove the memcal from your truck, use the HDR1 to read the stock chip with the APU1, and plug the ribbon cable from the APU1 to your ECM using the G1 adapter. Purchase the HDR1 and GP1 (which includes G1 and chips) from Moates.
    roadknee, i wanted to thank you for the .adx, when i close the shop later im going to hookup the laptop and see if my apu1 makes connection with tunerpro rt and im going to do some datalogging!!

    and thank you to everyone else who is helping out i appreciate all the feedback!
    1994 k2500 Extra Cab 7"Lift 4.88's 35's, 353ci 4 bolt main small block, forged/balanced rotating assembly, dart 180 64cc shp aluminum heads, edelbrock tbi manifold, holley 670cfm, comp cams 08-525-8, long tube headers, custom 2.5'' mandrel bent x-pipe exhaust with flowmaster 40's, custom built 4l60e
    1966 Chevy II SS (my first love <3)

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    but when it goes to die slowly, and it back fires through the tbi it does spurt some gas with it.
    The backfire changes vacuum in the intake to pressure and the ecm thinks you're accelerating so it adds fuel.

  13. #13
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    Move the MAP sensor vacuum hose from the rear port above the IAC to the front manifold vacuum fitting on the throttle body. The Holley 670 TBI units have an issue when the MAP sensor is connected to the rear port. Your setup is going to want more than 12.5 PSI. I would try around 15 to start and it may want as much as 18-21 psi once you dive into tuning. I know this is abit of a bandaid fix to get it driveable, but put some timing in it too. Set the distributor at 6-8* BTDC with the timing wire disconnected and bump the fuel pressure up as high as you dare. The stock pump will likely only support up to 15-16 psi before the internal relief opens.
    Last edited by Fast355; 03-06-2015 at 01:10 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    Move the MAP sensor vacuum hose from the rear port above the IAC to the front manifold vacuum fitting on the throttle body. The Holley 670 TBI units have an issue when the MAP sensor is connected to the rear port. Your setup is going to want more than 12.5 PSI. I would try around 15 to start and it may want as much as 18-21 psi once you dive into tuning. I know this is abit of a bandaid fix to get it driveable, but put some timing in it too. Set the distributor at 6-8* BTDC with the timing wire disconnected and bump the fuel pressure up as high as you dare. The stock pump will likely only support up to 15-16 psi before the internal relief opens.
    I have moved the map sensor to the front left port, which holley claims is manifold vacuum. I almost want to t into the brake booster line and see if that helps.

    You really think it wants that much fuel pressure? I'll definitely try bumping it up later. And I agree with turning base timing up, it always bugged me that these tbi motors were supposed to be set at 0, when a regular small block should be at 7-10. I'll try that too. Thanks!!
    1994 k2500 Extra Cab 7"Lift 4.88's 35's, 353ci 4 bolt main small block, forged/balanced rotating assembly, dart 180 64cc shp aluminum heads, edelbrock tbi manifold, holley 670cfm, comp cams 08-525-8, long tube headers, custom 2.5'' mandrel bent x-pipe exhaust with flowmaster 40's, custom built 4l60e
    1966 Chevy II SS (my first love <3)

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    I almost want to t into the brake booster line and see if that helps.
    Don't do that. The change in pressure when you apply the brakes will cause the ecm to add fuel.

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