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  1. #31
    Fuel Injected! DanofMostTrades's Avatar
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    I was not looking forward to repining my stock wiring harness for the 427 PCM, so instead I made an adapter with the plug from my old ECM. If anyone sees a reason this won't work, let me know. The only question I have is in regards to Pins E14 (MAP Reference/5 volt Ref) and F14 (TP Reference/5 volt Ref) which according to the pin out spreadsheet both go to Pin C14. There aren't any notes about it and the chart with color codes shows pin C14 going to pin E14 only, it doesn't mention F14. I soldered both wires to pin C14, am I going to fry something by doing this?

  2. #32
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    I think there are a few of us that have made similar adapters with good results. I've got E14 to C14 and nothing to F14. I don't think you'll fry anything hooking up both, but there's not a need to.
    1973 K-5 Blazer, TBI 350, TH400, 1 ton axles & 38" SSRs'
    1975 280Z, TBI 350, 700R4
    1953 M-38A1, TBI Buick 231
    1951 Ford Panel, 5.3 with 4L80E

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanofMostTrades View Post
    Making progress, ordered my Ostrich 2.0, and G1 adapter, then after work I found this at Pick N Pull today for $28, with a 6 month warranty.
    Your Pick-n-Pull has much better deals than the ones I go to! That would be around $60 out the door with a 30 day warranty around here.
    1973 K-5 Blazer, TBI 350, TH400, 1 ton axles & 38" SSRs'
    1975 280Z, TBI 350, 700R4
    1953 M-38A1, TBI Buick 231
    1951 Ford Panel, 5.3 with 4L80E

  4. #34
    Fuel Injected! DanofMostTrades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastacton View Post
    Your Pick-n-Pull has much better deals than the ones I go to! That would be around $60 out the door with a 30 day warranty around here.
    I believe she rang it up wrong, then she saw the wiring after I had paid and said, "Oh well". And the 6 month warranty kinda blew my mind, so I was very excited to get it out the door for $28, plus it looks perfect inside with no signs of corrosion. If F14 is not needed, I will disconnect it just to be safe, thank you.

  5. #35
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Adapters are a good way to go, at least for testing and proofing. I've made several adapters over the years for various applications. '7747 to '7730/7749, '7148 to '7730/'7749, '7730/'7749 to '7165 and a couple others. I'll be making a couple more this summer to go between the current harness and a couple aftermarket ECMs.

    I'm pretty sure there's another thread (or two) floating around with other people's adapter harnesses, but here is one I started, that shows the use of some DB computer connector pins that works far better than soldering the wire straight to the pin of the donor connector. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ne-or-started&

    --==EDIT==-- Here's another thread: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...apter-harness&
    Last edited by Six_Shooter; 02-28-2015 at 01:43 PM.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  6. #36
    Fuel Injected! DanofMostTrades's Avatar
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    Ok guys, I've been hard at work getting this motor ready, trying to weed out every problem I can before installing it. As of last night it is in the truck and almost ready to go. I'm now in need of a starter bin to go on my Ostrich 2.0. Here is my setup:

    96-2000 4 bolt main vortec longblock bone stock.
    Edelbrock performer RPM vortec intake. No egr.
    Stock 350 tbi with the ultimate tbi mods, and AFR.
    Stock injectors.
    Upgraded fuel pump.
    long tube headers, 1.5"prime to 2.5" collector. O2 in collector. True dual 2.5" exhaust no cats.
    700r4 transmission and transfer case (4x4).
    Running a 427 pcm from a 95 350 auto truck.(my truck is an '87)

    My guess is it will make around 270-280HP. Does anyone have a similar build that would be willing to share they're bin? I'm new to tuning and would like to have a good starting point.
    Thanks in advance.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanofMostTrades View Post
    Ok guys, I've been hard at work getting this motor ready, trying to weed out every problem I can before installing it. As of last night it is in the truck and almost ready to go. I'm now in need of a starter bin to go on my Ostrich 2.0. Here is my setup:

    96-2000 4 bolt main vortec longblock bone stock.
    Edelbrock performer RPM vortec intake. No egr.
    Stock 350 tbi with the ultimate tbi mods, and AFR.
    Stock injectors.
    Upgraded fuel pump.
    long tube headers, 1.5"prime to 2.5" collector. O2 in collector. True dual 2.5" exhaust no cats.
    700r4 transmission and transfer case (4x4).
    Running a 427 pcm from a 95 350 auto truck.(my truck is an '87)

    My guess is it will make around 270-280HP. Does anyone have a similar build that would be willing to share they're bin? I'm new to tuning and would like to have a good starting point.
    Thanks in advance.
    I think you are under estimating the HP. Iys more like 300-310 hp. You are going to need either larger injectors or alot more fuel pressure. I have a decen bin file I could dig up but you will need to increase your injector flow before it will ever run right.

  8. #38
    Fuel Injected! DanofMostTrades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    I think you are under estimating the HP. Iys more like 300-310 hp. You are going to need either larger injectors or alot more fuel pressure. I have a decen bin file I could dig up but you will need to increase your injector flow before it will ever run right.
    So, where does the 40-50 extra HP come from? Is Chevy's rating of 260 HP just that far off? (I'm not challenging your knowledge, im just curious.) And how much fuel pressure will I need to run with my stock injectors? 18-20psi? Thank you, I would greatly appreciate that bin too.

  9. #39
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    When starting on a tune like this, I always start with a bone stock bin for the engine, or similar engine (when using a Delco on a non GM engine, or swapping ECMs between applications).

    In most cases a stock bin will allow even some of the most modified engines start and run, and from there you can start tuning idle. then work your way up.

    By far the hardest part to tune on any engine will be the cold start and cold run parameters, but with some care and being observant of actual fuel ratio, not just what the WBO2 gauge on your dash is telling you, you can at least get the engine to start and up to operating temp where the real tuning can begin. By real AFR I mean using your nose, eyes and touch to smell see and feel that the exhaust is either too lean or more commonly too rich after a rebuild. The reason for being too rich is because larger camshafts tend to produce less vacuum and therefore an ECM will think the engine is under more load than it really is, adding more fuel.

    On fresh starts, I will, just to get the engine up to operating temp, using the injector scaler(s) (BPW, BPW vs EGR, etc) to lean out or richen the mixture using an emulator to keep the AFR is a close approximation of where it needs to be. Once warmed up. I will then find the sweet spot for the BPW, where the engine runs close to stoich without surging or stalling and start to adjust the VE table from there. Initial tunes take several attempts on the more modified engines. It will be a back and forth with adjustments, especially if you find you need some really high values in the VE table that do not allow for much overhead at the higher loads. I like to keep max VE in the VE table below 90%, to allow for any additional adjustments that may be needed later. The flip side is also true, if you need to reduce the values in the VE table so much that you're getting below about 20, then you may need to adjust the BPW/injector scaler. This is what I have found for the more wildly built engines.

    Engines with mild modifications, such as an "EFI friendly" cam, some mild porting, headers, exhaust and maybe an intake tend to not be as much trouble. Using a stock bin has worked to get an engine running and up to temp in these situations without much issue, unless there is a mechanical issue (I'll get to that in a minute). Letting an engine warm up while being slightly rich is not the end of the world. I try to keep the warm up AFRs under 13:1, just to make sure that the oil won't be getting saturated with fuel, but this will usually allow for a smoother running engine when first tuning. The closer the AFR is to between 14.1:1 to 14.7:1 the better, but this may not happen until after the operating temp running tuning has begun or has been just about finished.

    Just as an FYI, on my Nissan 2.8L I6 using code59, I started with a "stock starter bin (V4)", and had the engine running in a few minutes after making a couple starting fuel settings, but was running within a few minutes. I pulled the car on the road and after making a few VE table adjustments to get rid of a part throttle surge I was driving around in a car that was not supposed to run according to some "experts". ;)

    So basically, start with a stock bin and you might be surprised just how close it will be to start tuning from. ;)

    About those mechanical issues...

    I had this trick me recently. A friend of mine recently upgraded the engine in his girlfriend's car, with a new cam, headers, 3" exhaust, ported heads, and maybe a couple other things that I don't recall right now. Anyway, we went out Saturday afternoon (a week ago), did some tuning on it, the WBO2 was kinda all over the place, and something didn't feel right. I couldn't nail the tune down, because what worked one minute didn't work teh next, and so I got into a sort of tuning circle. I kept mentioning how it seemed like there was a dead cylinder, or at least a very weak one. Lean spikes on the WBO2 that seemed almost cyclic screamed this to me. Anyway. We get back and the exhaust sounds different on each side of the car (true duals, no crossover). I suggest that he check the plugs and the cylinders when he got a chance and see if he finds anything. Sure enough, cyl #5 has issues. He fixes that, then the tune is way out. We went out last night, and I tuned the car all over again, and it's a whole different animal now. So make sure that what you are tuning has no mechanical issues. Even a new build does not guarantee that the engine is perfect. ;)
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanofMostTrades View Post
    So, where does the 40-50 extra HP come from? Is Chevy's rating of 260 HP just that far off? (I'm not challenging your knowledge, im just curious.) And how much fuel pressure will I need to run with my stock injectors? 18-20psi? Thank you, I would greatly appreciate that bin too.
    Gross vs Net HP rating and the fact you have long tube headers and full catless exhaust rather than those god awful manifolds and tiny 1 7/8" head pipes of a factory vortec truck. Also the TBI on a rpm intake is less restrictive than the factory vortec intake manifold with all the fuel spider crap in the way. A Vortec 350 with headers, decent exhaust and a good tune is over 250 rear wheel hp. Even using a very conservative 18% loss through the drivetrain that is 305 hp at the flywheel.

    It is also experience with these engines telling me you need fuel for a lot more than 250 HP.
    Last edited by Fast355; 04-20-2015 at 09:44 AM.

  11. #41
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    To support ~300 HP at a .5 BSFC with 2 injectors at 85% duty cycle means you need 88 lbs/hr per injector. To get 88 lb/hr from a 61 lb/hr @ 11 psi injector means you fuel pressure needs to be about 24 psi.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six_Shooter View Post
    I suggest that he check the plugs and the cylinders when he got a chance and see if he finds anything. Sure enough, cyl #5 has issues. He fixes that, then the tune is way out. We went out last night, and I tuned the car all over again, and it's a whole different animal now. So make sure that what you are tuning has no mechanical issues. Even a new build does not guarantee that the engine is perfect. ;)
    Had a cracked plug on a F-body. It does mess things up. It seemed to be running OK except that it seemed a little flat.

  13. #43
    Fuel Injected! DanofMostTrades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    To support ~300 HP at a .5 BSFC with 2 injectors at 85% duty cycle means you need 88 lbs/hr per injector. To get 88 lb/hr from a 61 lb/hr @ 11 psi injector means you fuel pressure needs to be about 24 psi.
    Ok, thank you for the info. I have a stiffer reg spring on the way (was hoping to get enough fp with stock spring cranked all the way down. Ha, about 15, not even close.) I already have the higher pressure pump installed.

  14. #44
    Fuel Injected! DanofMostTrades's Avatar
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    Six_Shooter, I went ahead and loaded a stock bin on the Ostrich and fired it up. I ran it for about a minute just to get my base timing set, and shut it off. I want to data log but I'm having trouble getting a data stream connection. Tuner pro recognizes my aldl cable on (COM 5) and says the cable is connected and functional, but when I try to connect it just says "DA: connecting...." forever. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? I bought the cable from www.aldlcable.com 3 years ago and it worked fine with winaldl. I have the 427 pcm with the BJYK bin on the Ostrich and I'm using this definition: A217 $0D TP5 v250.adx. The motor started first crank and sounds great, but i need to get my fuel pressure up and stream data before I go any further. Hearing it fire up was pretty awesome, I'm very excited to get it on the road.

  15. #45
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    In TunerPro, go to tools-preferences-data acq./emulation and make sure the settings there are correct.
    1973 K-5 Blazer, TBI 350, TH400, 1 ton axles & 38" SSRs'
    1975 280Z, TBI 350, 700R4
    1953 M-38A1, TBI Buick 231
    1951 Ford Panel, 5.3 with 4L80E

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