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Thread: ok ? wanted to see if anyone can program and how much?

  1. #1
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    ok ? wanted to see if anyone can program and how much?

    Seems to me my learning curve with this is gonna take awhile

  2. #2
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    The learning curve is all part of the fun. What are you working on, what problems are you having?

    Buddrow
    If it don't fit force it, if it don't force fit f&%@ it!

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    When I started I didn't know about different ecm or pcm I have a 7727 and I was told it would be better to use a 7747 because I dont want vss or knock or egr I have 87'-88' tbi 350 with mils cam "lunatti" upgraded valvetrain edelbrock tbi intake and a 70' th350 I thought the programing would be easier like off or on for the stuff I didn't want to use so when I get the new ecm I was hoping to get the chip programed

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    I don't really have any exp with the 7727 but I have quite a bit with the 7747 so I can say it is pretty easy to tune, turn items off, etc. If you can obtain a 7747 do so. I would suggest you get the wire harness that goes with it as well so your local pull a part salvage is best bet. In the mean time I would download the latest xdf for the 7747 and start looking through it to familiarize yourself with the different items. The real learning will begin once you get the ecm and associated wiring installed and can start tuning the engine for various driving conditions. Bear in mind, it's a learning process for all of us as there is no "one size fits all" tune. But if you learn what the different parameters affect and how to manipulate them, you'll be on your way to tuning bliss.

    Buddrow
    If it don't fit force it, if it don't force fit f&%@ it!

  5. #5
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    Ok so xdf and $42, the xdf the bin file? Im a lil confused about the ads xdf etc

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    Yes the $42 xdf. The xdf is a file which allows TunerPro to know how to arrange and display the values of the bin file. The .bin file stores all the "tune" information, it's contained on the eprom chip. The adx(ads is older obsolete format) is used for data aquisition, viewing live sensor data, trouble codes and datalogging. Download the $42 xdf, the "best" factory 7747 .bin to start with is usually ASDU, and the latest $42 adx file. Also, if you haven't already, download TunerProRT(donate too). There is some equipment you will need as well to burn chips and view data. To burn the chips you will need a chip burner which you can buy from Moates.net or do like I did and buy one off ebay, MiniPro TL866CS about $50 shipped. You will also need a usb-serial adapter to view data. There are several options there as well, from prebuilt cables to "homebuilt" cables like the one I use.

    There are also a few miscellaneous items such as a chip socketadapter for the ecm and a couple of spare chips to program.I have around $150 in my tuning setup which is fairly minimal but quite enough for me at the moment. Hmm, did I miss anything? :)

    Buddrow
    If it don't fit force it, if it don't force fit f&%@ it!

  7. #7
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    Thank you for your help im gonna download and see what I can figure out

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    No problem, but next time, stick to one thread if you have questions. :)

    Buddrow
    If it don't fit force it, if it don't force fit f&%@ it!

  9. #9
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    Ok thank you

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    LT1 specialist steveo's Avatar
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    i know its a pretty daunting task for a beginner, but just get your bin and definition and start looking at it.

    dont mess with any really oddball parameters unless you have to, as a beginner you want to focus on (and i'll explain each one):

    - the VE tables (which basically represent how much fuel is injected at any particular RPM and engine vacuum, engine vacuum represents 'load'.) more ve is more fuel; thats all you need to know for now

    - the spark tables (which control spark advance). this is VERY complex stuff involving flame front propogation, but basically: more spark advance than you need is more chance of detonation and extra combustion heat and stress and surge, perfect spark will burn almost all the available fuel cleanly and make the most vacuum and the smoothest operation, and not enough spark advance will increase exhaust heat, cause rough running and poor fuel economy.

    and....

    - the power enrichment tables (which control how much extra fuel is injected when you floor it). this is fuel added to the fuel you've already set up in VE, usually.

    don't change anything you dont understand, and make small incremental changes instead of big ones until you get a feel for stuff.

    for example adding a bunch of spark timing to an area all at once, that's something that only experienced tuners should do. adding a degree or two of spark generally wont hurt anything, but then you have to monitor a log to see if there's knock as a result, and also really use 'by feel' to see if the engine feels rough or surgey. unfortauntely you dont have a knock sensor planned into your build, so this has to be done VERY conservatively, and done by reading plugs and listening and feeling it out, and very carefully monitoring vacuum increase as you change timing. the less sensors you have the harder it is to tune, sometimes...

    in your case, you want to add or subtract only a small amount of fuel, timing, idle speed, whatever at a time, see how it responds, then try a bit more if you like.

    thats how everyone starts tuning, and thats how you will too.

    getting a tune-by-mail tune as a baseline might be an ok idea, then do a bit of fine tuning yourself, find your own idle speed, stuff like that. it depends how deep you want to get into it

  11. #11
    Fuel Injected! 1BadAction's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveo View Post
    i know its a pretty daunting task for a beginner, but just get your bin and definition and start looking at it.
    This may seem simple to us, but to someone just starting, looking at tunerpro trying to get a bin open correctly is a confusing MF.

    Perhaps someone should do a walkthrough to sticky, so when people have tuning problems we will already have the basic information? Or do we already have something like that?
    94 Blazer, Turbo'd 350 TBI - DD
    1991 2500 Suburban Adventure truck - 4wd conversion, 4-link F/R, 582ci CNP Big Block with Terminator X EFI backed by a 6L90 and twin stick'd NP205 t-case
    2012 Porsche Panamera Turbo - Date night car :)
    1979 16' Action Marine/"Johnny Cash" Merc Bridgeport Champ Motor - Metalflake Maniac

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  13. #13
    LT1 specialist steveo's Avatar
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    do you want me to write something along the lines of "joe's first tune"? im pretty good at that stuff I bet I could whip it up overnight...

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    Fuel Injected! 1BadAction's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveo View Post
    do you want me to write something along the lines of "joe's first tune"? im pretty good at that stuff I bet I could whip it up overnight...
    lol. I didn't necessarily mean YOU do it... and yes it's all googleable (if thats a word of your own invention it's a good one ) what I mean is maybe a single post with a bullet point walkthrough of hooking up an autoprom and datalogging, maybe a basic rundown of navigating in tunerpro. simple and EZ.

    No doubt you gave him some good info in this thread, just like a number of other new people who log on and ask the same things that have already been answered. This is what I'm saying, it seems like many people log on and ask almost the same exact things, and someone will give the same answers. Its not really a new guys fault, because you try to search a lot of these terms (XDF, ADX, etc) and the answers aren't relevant or the search doesn't even work.

    Kind of off topic, I know... just something I have been thinking about for awhile.
    94 Blazer, Turbo'd 350 TBI - DD
    1991 2500 Suburban Adventure truck - 4wd conversion, 4-link F/R, 582ci CNP Big Block with Terminator X EFI backed by a 6L90 and twin stick'd NP205 t-case
    2012 Porsche Panamera Turbo - Date night car :)
    1979 16' Action Marine/"Johnny Cash" Merc Bridgeport Champ Motor - Metalflake Maniac

  15. #15
    LT1 specialist steveo's Avatar
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    no, its a good idea for sure

    im willing to write up such a thing in detail, such as...

    what you need to get started (adx, xdf, bin) and what they all do
    how to get started datalogging, and how to relate certain values in logs to the tables in your bin.. and the general workflow of tuning, logging, and repeat.
    understanding basic fuel tables for VE or MAF, and various ways to check fuel metering (BLM trims, wideband, readin' plugs)
    basics on spark tuning and how engines react to it, what engines require less or more spark, re-ranging stock timing tables for larger cams, stuff like that (im half done that tutorial already)

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