First start up, New build 355

[terpngator]

Hey Steve,
Here is the info on my build.

ENGINE

5.7 Gen II LT1, bored .030 to 355. Block decked to .015. aprox 11.5 to 1 comp.

HEADS:
CASTING # 1020764, 54CC COMBUSTION CHAMBERS
10128374 = Gen.II LT1, 54cc, angle plug, aluminum, reverse flow cooling, 175/68cc port volume
Valves: 2.02 Intake 1.60 Exhaust
Runners smoothed and matched to intake.
32 Lb/hr Bosch Injectors

CAM:
Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: Idle-6,000
Valve Springs: LT4 Hot Cam springs
Intake Valve Lift: Int/Exh .525/.525
Duration: Int/Exh 218/228
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112

TRANSMISSION:
4L60E Rebuilt with Sonnax Performance Pack HP-4L60E-01 Kit. Billet pinless accumulator pistons.
Sonnax 1-2 and 4th Super Hold Servos.
VSS IS connected to ECM

REAR:
Ford 8.8 from 2000 Explorer. 3.55 gears.

SENSORS:
MAP—Hooked up
TPS—Hooked up
IAC—Hooked up
ECT(engine coolant temp)—Hooked up
IAT (intake air temp) connected but not in intake ducting.

MAF—Not installed yet
02 sensors—Not installed yet
CPS (crankshaft position) not hooked up

Anything else you need, please let me know.

Thanks so much.

[steveo]

cool, i'll do a starter bin for you tonight.

i'd reccommend you get the MAF and IAT installed before starting it for the first time. even if the IAT is hanging in open air it'll work fine.

otherwise what i'll do though is tune your VE tables a bit rich just in case you do want to start it without the maf.

i wont do much automatic transmission tuning, i'll just fix it up for the gear ratio and call it a day.

do you have a data sheet for those injectors with offsets?

[terpngator]

cool, i'll do a starter bin for you tonight.

i'd reccommend you get the MAF and IAT installed before starting it for the first time. even if the IAT is hanging in open air it'll work fine.

otherwise what i'll do though is tune your VE tables a bit rich just in case you do want to start it without the maf.

i wont do much automatic transmission tuning, i'll just fix it up for the gear ratio and call it a day.

do you have a data sheet for those injectors with offsets?

Thanks Steve,
I'll have to check in the shop for the data sheet from FIC. Nothing on their website that I could find. I'll get an IAT sensor. I have a MAF but not ducting. Since the body is not mounted on the chassis yet, I don't know where the ducting will wind up.

[terpngator]

Nope, no data sheet. Just some directions for installing Bosch design III in LT1 engines. Refers you to the website http://www.thirdgen.org/ for trouble shooting.
************************
Later on Saturday;
Got the IAT sensor. Tried calling Fuel Injection Connection, no answer (Saturday). Did some digging and found a few things. Number on the side of my injectors is F6VE A5A. (I think this is a Ford part #) rebuilt by FIC to be32 Lb/Hr at 45.5 psi fuel pressure.

I found this thread that may make some sense to you Steve:

http://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum...mes-chart.html

Thanks
Pat

cool, i'll do a starter bin for you tonight.

i'd reccommend you get the MAF and IAT installed before starting it for the first time. even if the IAT is hanging in open air it'll work fine.

otherwise what i'll do though is tune your VE tables a bit rich just in case you do want to start it without the maf.

i wont do much automatic transmission tuning, i'll just fix it up for the gear ratio and call it a day.

do you have a data sheet for those injectors with offsets?

[steveo]

so here's what i did for you, about 20 minutes work. should get you going as far as i know.

- started with some kinda '95 f-body auto base bin (one of the later OBD-I revisions i think)
- increased cylinder volume constant by 1%, injector constant to 32.35lb/hr, since your injectors were benched at 45.5, and also assuming n-heptane test fluid so that knocks it off a bit. that -should- be an ok base for fueling, i hope.
- extrapolated injector voltage offset table from a similar bosch-iii injector, may not be correct but probably closer than stock injector offsets
- disabled EGR (via rpm range)
- disabled AIR pump (via coolant range)
- removed off-idle sequential trims, i find that gives a smoother off idle transition on a modified lt1
- tripled o2 integrator delay, since i assume you're running long headers and the o2s will be far away, even though you haven't said so
- bumped up o2 swing voltage a bit; keeps it a hair richer in closed loop, it'll like it
- base B-BODY maf calibration table to match your wrecker maf, leaned the bottom end slightly to deal with a tiny bit of cam reversion, definitely needs further tuning
- softened timing corrections for idle speed error so it doesn't fight itself while the cam is trying to lope
- reduced max knock retard to sane levels (one can assume if there's 9+ degrees of knock retard, it's not really knock, and we can stop pulling timing..)
- reduced added timing advance for warmup, which usually smooths things out a bit when you're driving off on a cold morning.
- a bit of a retarded main timing table with some cam surge reduction and only a bit of off-idle tip in, and 'fairly safe' wide open throttle timing. this does need touch-up, but should be fairly smooth and no knock, i think.
- ~6000rpm fuel cutoff
- reduced TPS entry points for power enrichment (will take off a bit better when you floor it)
- increased dfco map entry/exit so it actually gets into DFCO with your cam
- reduced CORRCL a bit, this is so it doesnt try to overcorrect with the o2 sensors, since cam/headers/etc can destabilize exhaust readings
- disable CAT protect mode since you probably have no cat now
- added about 7% to entire VE table, better as a limp mode if your MAF dies, and i have a theory that it helps transitional fueling a bit
- increased BLM cell hysteresis and cell boundaries, since your operating range will be higher and less stable than a stock engine.
- 28 degrees idle timing, 700rpm target idle in and out of gear; a total guess since i dont tune automatics often. if you find it's not idling well enough, just add 50rpm and 1 degree of timing at a time until it smooths out.
- disabled ac clutch
- disabled speed limiter
- reduced idle speed follower
- disable traction control
- disable vats
- disable error checking for EGR, air, air conditioning, etc.
- used tunercat's automatic speedo calibration, since it's supposed to throw your automatic transmission stuff in the right ballpark..
- reduced fan turn-on points a bit

and that's how i base tune an LT1

i should note, i left o2 error codes on. that way the o2s will fail if unplugged and keep you in open loop at least. you really should get some o2 sensors and do a log to see how close we are in fueling ballpark.

[terpngator]

Thank you so much Steve. Still waiting for my BeCool rad to get here. Should have been here on Monday according to BeCool, but they lie I still have to finish plumbing my aux trans cooler, AN fittings got here today. Actually, my headers are block hugger due to the frame in these old cars wedging so hard in front. I estimate that the 02's will be aprox 16" from the valves. Sorry, I had that in my notes, but I neglected to include it in my note to you. When I start her up, I'll let you know.

[steveo]

oh ok it'll work fine with the delays i put in there anyway; but they could be lower

[terpngator]

oh ok it'll work fine with the delays i put in there anyway; but they could be lower

GREAT! Something I can learn on.

[terpngator]

Hey Steve,
OK, got the O2 sensors installed and ran it for a while. I pulled 2 scans, here they are.

[steveo]

awesome ill look when I get home

have you revised your bin at all?

[terpngator]

The only thing I've done, on your suggestion, was to increase inj constant to 35.5. Honestly, at this point, I have no idea what to change. Because it's running so rich (spark plugs still covered in soot) my first thought would be to play with individual injector trims. Is that right, or should I be looking elsewhere. If I better understood just how the engine interacts with the computer, I would have a better idea, but that will come as I get into this engine tune.

I do have 2 DTC's. Not sure what to do about that as it looks like wiring problem, but the only wiring I have is the engine harness and it's laying on the engine.

Thanks Steve.

[steveo]

well our base fueling calcs might be out to lunch, im no tune by mail guy, just a trial and error guy. if these logs were made with 35.5 inj. constant at least we have a start. i'll check it out and see where we're at

[steveo]

those codes that are set are a big problem.

one of them is for the knock sensor.

when that code is set, it retards a ton of timing. so that explains why its pretty gassy... since my timing table was already a bit 'conservative'. it's not necessarily even rich, it's simply not burning the fuel. need to fix that one. timing that retarded will screw with your fueling a bit (it wont burn a bunch of it, so the o2s aren't reading properly)

the next code is for MAF sensor circuit fail.

that writes off the logs, they're useless. i set your VE tables to be pretty damn rich for 'safe mode', expecting a functional MAF to be there.

when it does 'seem' to go closed loop, it actually has the o2s pegged rich and not set ready, so trims dont happen at all.

so i'm sorry to say these logs are useless until those problems are solved, unless you want to run a setup with no knock sensor, and speed density with no maf, which can be done, if you're comitted enough to it.

[terpngator]

OK, I can bird dog these codes but the knock sensor, in particular, is going to be an issue that might be unresolvable. SEE MY THREAD HERE, and you'll see what I'm talking about. I have used several brass connectors to plumb the knock sensor away from it's original position but it is still RIGHT NEXT TO THE HEADER. So I assume it's getting a high knock count from the exhaust. I will research the MAF code today, but do you have any suggestions as to what it could be? I have 2 MAF's here and I've tried them both to get rid of the fault with no luck. Is there a way to tell specifically what the computer is seeing, with the MAF, that sets this code? There is minimal wiring, and that is all new, and then the MAF itself. I am also getting a VSS fault but sometimes it doesn't set a code. That might be from another sub system, in the computer, looking for a signal (ABS, Speed Sensitive Steering) or something else that is no longer in use and looking for a VSS signal.

SO, can you explain what is involved with speed density tuning? I've done some reading on it and understand how it works but can it be used, long term, to run the engine? That may be what I'm looking at just because of the knock sensor issue. OH yea, in my post about relocating the knock sensor, you said something about tuning it out. Is that an option for me?
Thanks Steve.

[steveo]

I will research the MAF code today, but do you have any suggestions as to what it could be?

that maf code is fairly undescriptive. it's probably just not getting a signal. are you sure the MAF is getting power on the pink wire and has a good clean ground? it has a good seal between the maf and throttle body?

I have used several brass connectors to plumb the knock sensor away from it's original position but it is still RIGHT NEXT TO THE HEADER.

that code happens so early that no forced knock test has probably been run yet, so i'd assume it's a faulty knock sensor or wiring, or the knock sensor does not have ground. we can simply disable the knock sensor for now. that'll at least give you your timing back. just have to make sure your timing is conservative.

SO, can you explain what is involved with speed density tuning? I've done some reading on it and understand how it works but can it be used, long term, to run the engine?

tuning VE (without a maf) is a fairly long process that involves a pretty big commitment of time. this has nothing to do with your knock sensor. you need to pick MAF or speed density for fuel metering.

you are running speed density right now due to the maf error. that's why it's running so rich; i couldn't begin to ballpark a VE table for that engine.

That might be from another sub system, in the computer, looking for a signal (ABS, Speed Sensitive Steering) or something else that is no longer in use and looking for a VSS signal.

that's not how it is. this is not some ultra modern canbus vehicle control mainframe thing, it's just an engine computer. the only vss input to the ecm with an LT1 is the vss itself. this particular ecm doesn't take input from any other signalling modules outside the engine/trans in an ordinary car with the exception of VATS, and doesn't 'look for other modules'