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Thread: - we're working on it :)

  1. #1
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    - we're working on it :)

    Dave (Old School EFI) is working on this for me:

    My 1984 Fiero Indy Pace Car with SD4 (Super Duty 4-cylinder) race engine.

    This SD4 engine originally ran dual Weber side-draft carbs in race trim before being transplanted into the Fiero
    (but was never run in the car - installation was never completed by previous 2 owners).

    When I got the car, the engine was rebuilt and detuned (C.R. was 13.5:1 - now 10.5:1) we went with a 4-bbl carb on Edelbrock 4-bbl manifold. I never could get it working quite right. Transitions from cruise to WOT always had a bog in there we couldn't tune out. Cold starts were OK, but you couldn't drive until it warmed up a bit and it also got horrible gas mileage.

    I installed a FAST EZ-EFI - a fuel only system designed to replace a 4-bbl carb (you retain your weights/springs/vacuum distributor for ignition). While the hardware seemed to work great, the "self-tuning" fell flat on its face with this engine. It was over-fueling the engine for some reason.

    I wasted the entire summer following up the diagnosis from FAST's technicians:

    1. must be installed wrong
    2. must have an exhaust leak
    3. must be "interference" (your car is haunted)

    After eliminating all possible problems and an ocilloscope diagnosis of all signals came up clean,
    it became apparent I had a case of "there's nothing wrong - but it just won't work right".





    I gave up on their ECU and went the DIY route. I kept only the FAST EZ-EFI throttle body, built a new wiring harness and installed a 8192 baud Delco 1227165 ECM with an NVRAM module from pcmhackers.net to run the car. This slick combination gives you the ability to Flash BINs, Real-Time Emulation and Tuning with TunerPro RT directly through the ALDL port. I also added a knock sensor and switched back to an ECM controlled ignition system on the engine.





    I started with a modded $12P BIN for Camaro 350 TPI w/SD - changed parameters to 4-cylinders and fuel to suit the 2-injector setup.
    It started on the second crank - and ran not bad! Proof of concept confirmed!

    Thankfully, Dave is working on the fine-tuning of the $12P BIN for 7165 ECM with NVRAM right now.

    I was able to put this together, but the TunerPro learning curve is like a steep vertical cliff for me.

    It's ongoing, but getting better with each BIN I flash into the ECM.

    Cheers,
    Tony
    Last edited by IndyPaceCar; 07-30-2014 at 06:21 AM.

  2. #2
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    is it throttle body injected you may need the code modded by vl400 to run tbi properly if using $12p if i remember right TBI mode was converted to 2 cylinder mode for a motorbike

  3. #3
    Fuel Injected! devind's Avatar
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    Interesting build. Keep the updates coming.
    One thing for sure you got the right man on the job to sort out the fine tuning. Dave is very good about thinking outside the box to overcome problems and issues.

  4. #4
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    delcowizzid:

    We started with the $12P BIN you created for the Camaro.

    The TB has 2 high impedance injectors and so is not the same as a GM 2-injector TBI.
    But could you explain how the ECM would handle things differently in "TBI mode"?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by devind View Post
    One thing for sure you got the right man on the job to sort out the fine tuning. Dave is very good about thinking outside the box to overcome problems and issues.
    I noticed that right away. Hopefully Dave is finding this one "interesting" ...

  6. #6
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPaceCar View Post
    delcowizzid:

    We started with the $12P BIN you created for the Camaro.

    The TB has 2 high impedance injectors and so is not the same as a GM 2-injector TBI.
    But could you explain how the ECM would handle things differently in "TBI mode"?
    TBI mode will be firing the injectors every Distributor Reference Pulse (DRP). The exported log file shows 4 cyl Memcal / 4 cyl Mode, which should be TBI mode. Some additional information on TBI Mode; http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2946

    dave w
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    TBI mode will be firing the injectors every Distributor Reference Pulse (DRP). The exported log file shows 4 cyl Memcal / 4 cyl Mode, which should be TBI mode. Some additional information on TBI Mode; http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2946

    dave w
    That makes sense since the original application had a single 60# injector.

    My setup is firing TWO 74# injectors. So we treat it the same and just scale back the fuel?

  8. #8
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    yeah as long as its firing tbi mode every ref pulse youll be fine.its great code to use

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by delcowizzid View Post
    yeah as long as its firing tbi mode every ref pulse youll be fine.its great code to use
    $12P is completely new to Dave - but he's "getting it"

  10. #10
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    got any log files

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPaceCar View Post
    $12P is completely new to Dave - but he's "getting it"
    It is not a hard code to grasp. Tuned a supercharged TPI in an 87 Camaro with it. Worlds above the 165 MAP code that is native to that ECM on this side of the pacific.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by devind View Post
    Interesting build. Keep the updates coming.
    One thing for sure you got the right man on the job to sort out the fine tuning.
    Dave is very good about thinking outside the box to overcome problems and issues.
    Thank you. More on the car here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000077.html

    We're still working toward the "sweet spot". Because there is really no good "starter BIN" for this setup,
    it's slow going, but getting there. Dave could explain better.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by delcowizzid View Post
    got any log files
    You have a PM...

  14. #14
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    Dave's still working with me on this. Apparently, the Aussie $12P BIN is very different from the usual GM BIN files and I wasn't aware of that. So it's been a learning process to sort this out.

    I think I have about a month of "driving weather" left before the car is off the street for the winter.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    The monitors in TunerPro RT are very helpful for tuning. $12P has different parameter for increasing / decreasing the injector pulse width WOT.

    dave w
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