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Thread: Hacking/tuning the jeep ecm

  1. #46
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    So it can be done?

    I just looked through TunerPro and each value in xdf (bin side) and adx (data acqusistion side) had 8, 16 and 32 bit options. Does that make it doable?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  2. #47
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    TunerPro cannot adjust the functions used in the SBEC ecu. You would need to use software like DCAL .

  3. #48
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    De-solder the EPROM, figure out the offset for the chip being used, read and upload the chips contents to a file on the computer.&
    Do the DSM ecu's EPROMs contain executable code? Early GM ecm's placed code on a separate PROM while the removeable EPROM contained primarily calibration data which made things much tougher in the beginning.

    Cracking GM code was done as a project at Ohio State University way back when by genius type computer geeks who knew microprocessor languages and took a team and years to get it done... luckily all the rest of GM code was similar so we have hacks for most...
    I uderstand the point behind this but I want to set this straight. The only connection to OSU was that the DIY_EFI mailing list was hosted there when enough like minded guys were on the list to get the project started. Most of the guys in the project were not computer geeks who knew microprocessor language. And for all intents and purposes, if the effort resembled a team it was only very loosely so. There were a couple of guys who had some really kewl skills and had done exceptional things working out their own disassemblies. There were some engineers and electronics techs and few guys who had experience with network administration. But there were also plenty of guys who were into cars and had a little advanced skill with automotive systems and believed they could get the GM code figured out. We kludged around in the beginning working out data locations and functions for a very limited amount of stuff. Every now and then someone would find a tidbit or a piece of software that gave a good clue. But the real advancements came when "Ecmguy" decided to reward the efforts being made by releasing a few of his hacs to the public. Without that, the entire effort would probably have fizzled. After that, more and more previously unknown data started coming to light, most of it from outside the group that started the project. What's important is this:

    You didn't have to be a genius to make tuning a possibility, but you had to be willing to put in effort and it did require some outside help.

    If you could learn how an engine worked chances were you could learn enough to work with code.

    You had to pay attention to detail and you had to be veeery patient. Many hours can be burned up with very little apparent progress.

    There are some quality hacs around from unexpected sources:

    An Avionics tech for a DOD facility. This guy told me he made it a point to spend 20 - 30 hrs per week working on disassembly. He had great access to Motorola documentation, much of which described example circuits and code which exactly matched GM circuits and code.

    A Surgeon who taught himself Motorola machine opcodes and used previously existing hacs to do a few uncommon masks such as a turbocharged lotus and a ZR1. He found it relaxing.

    A dentist and a network admin who spent a bunch of time working out code for the 7749 / $58. I believe they were the first to release a 3 bar calibration for the SyTy world.

    An Apple computer guru. He liked Fieros and got curious abuut what was in his car's ecm.

    An engineering student who wrote some interesting papers because he was curious about how the ECM code actually worked.

    It would be unfair to believe you couldn't do this because it takes some god-like ability or talent. But it does take time, dedication, help, and desire.

    /soapbox
    Last edited by 1project2many; 12-25-2011 at 10:33 AM.

  4. #49
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hexdmy View Post
    My specialty is calibrating the SBEC2 and JTEC engine controllers, like the one used on your Jeep. A couple of pointers ,

    - Chrysler ecus use a special serial communication routine that runs at 7812.5 and 62500 baud .

    - TunerPro will work for the 3D tables (yes SBEC2 ecus use 3D tables) and constants, but will not work for the functions, as Chrysler uses a 16 bit slope value between breakpoints.

    - You can connect a Moates Ostrich to the ecu and emulate as long as your ecu is not using a latched chip.
    So can I use the moates autoprom to read the EPROM? And for that much, if you can use the ostrich to emulate, I'm guessing I could also use the autoprom?
    If so, do you know what offsets I need to use to read the chip. I can get the chip out, and probably read it, but as far as actually cracking the code and writing definations is over my head. Thats why I am willing to pay someone to do it.

    I am currently visiting family for the holidays, so once I get back I will get the numbers/letters off the microprocessor.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  5. #50
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hexdmy View Post
    TunerPro cannot adjust the functions used in the SBEC ecu. You would need to use software like DCAL .
    Still learning. What is ment by functions?
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  6. #51
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    Thats why I am willing to pay someone to do it.
    You probably do not make enough to pay someone to do this work. It takes a lot of time.

    Still learning. What is ment by functions?
    Math. Mopar systems used math equations instead of lookup tables in some areas. You would need to edit the equation instead of tables full of data.
    Last edited by 1project2many; 12-26-2011 at 10:15 PM.

  7. #52
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rts91tsi View Post
    The link I posted will show you where to look for the microprocessor, then get the numbers/letters off the top of the chip.http://starparts.chrysler.com/starli...n/Electric.pdf
    Ok, back home. I pulled the top off the spare ecm I have, and it looks a little diffrent on the inside than the one in that link, but I think I got the correct numbers.
    The numbers goes as follows:

    SC80571VFN
    672T02
    C96N
    ZQESI9312

    Also the eprom is a 27C256-20
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Do the DSM ecu's EPROMs contain executable code? Early GM ecm's placed code on a separate PROM while the removeable EPROM contained primarily calibration data which made things much tougher in the beginning.
    Yeah, the DSM's EPROM contains executable code.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns View Post
    Ok, back home. I pulled the top off the spare ecm I have, and it looks a little diffrent on the inside than the one in that link, but I think I got the correct numbers.
    The numbers goes as follows:

    SC80571VFN
    672T02
    C96N
    ZQESI9312

    Also the eprom is a 27C256-20
    The SC80571VFN is a Motorola processor. I'm not familiar with it, but there is info out there about them.
    http://www.seekchip.com/icstock-S/SC80571VFN.html

    The C96N is also a Motorola Processor which also has documentation.
    http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp...68HC11A0P-C96N

    There are also a few tools out there if you are serious about making your own hack. This IDE should work for the C96N, and has colored syntax for opcodes.
    http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...u/message/8159

  10. #55
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    I do a lot of stuff with the turbo Mopar ECU's. All of the SBEC's and SBECII's use a 68HC11A series processor.

    I have many of the Jeep bins already and have kind of started dis-assembling the code. But, I need to get back into it. I had a '95 GC last year that I had intended to do a cal for, but just didn't get back to the code. Too busy with other projects. Anyway, the GC was too rusty for me to use as a project (I know, big shock, a rusty Jeep in Michigan). But, I'm still interested in hacking the code. I'd be happy to help as I find stuff...

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    You probably do not make enough to pay someone to do this work. It takes a lot of time.


    Math. Mopar systems used math equations instead of lookup tables in some areas. You would need to edit the equation instead of tables full of data.
    I think he meant the 2D tables. Chrysler used a unique format for the 2D lookup tables. Instead of just putting in X,Y coordinates and using straight interpolation (which must calculate the slope to complete the interpolation); they actually simply encoded the pre-calculated slope into the table. Takes up twice as much storage, but probably only a tenth of the computation time. They started using that format back in '84 in the very first ECU which used a 6805(?) processor that had no divide instruction built in. So, the interpolation would have tken even longer to complete. It was just much easier to give up a little data space to save that precious computation time. Pretty ingenious if you ask me. Since it was a unique format to Chrysler, they kept it even when they went to the more powerfull 6811 (which actually can do division pretty easily).

    Because they encoded the slope, TunerPro cannot fully recalculate the 2D tables when a point is moved. TunerPro isn't setup to do the slope. The only programs that do it are D-Cal, CHeM, and the newer MP Tuner.

    For what it's worth, I have completely dis-assembled the turbo code back to my own source code that can compile a brand spakin' new binary.
    Last edited by shelgame; 01-06-2012 at 09:12 PM.

  12. #57
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    So, basicly your saying tunerpro is not gonna work with the jeep bin files?

    My jeep is a 93 wrangler 4.0L 5 speed. The spare ecm I have is actually from a 93 cherokee 4.0L auto. I dont mind opening its and removing the eprom, I just cant do that to one in my wrangler, cause I still need to drive it.
    If you have experance with these, do you happen to know the diffrence between auto and manual bins? I had originally bought the cherokee ecm because I red online that they were supposed to have a "better" timing curve to them. I swapped it in and everything ran the same, the only thing I noticed was I actually lost a little torque. So I put my original back in. Would be curious to know the diffrences in the two.
    But as I stated before, its all way over my head. I am at the mercy of smarter people who can hack it and get it to the point I can load it into a user friendly tunings sowfware where I can then make desired changes and burn back to a chip.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns View Post
    So, basicly your saying tunerpro is not gonna work with the jeep bin files?

    My jeep is a 93 wrangler 4.0L 5 speed. The spare ecm I have is actually from a 93 cherokee 4.0L auto. I dont mind opening its and removing the eprom, I just cant do that to one in my wrangler, cause I still need to drive it.
    If you have experance with these, do you happen to know the diffrence between auto and manual bins? I had originally bought the cherokee ecm because I red online that they were supposed to have a "better" timing curve to them. I swapped it in and everything ran the same, the only thing I noticed was I actually lost a little torque. So I put my original back in. Would be curious to know the diffrences in the two.
    But as I stated before, its all way over my head. I am at the mercy of smarter people who can hack it and get it to the point I can load it into a user friendly tunings sowfware where I can then make desired changes and burn back to a chip.
    Uusally, the only difference between manual and auto is in the idle control. But, it's possible that the auto trans cal has a bit more timing in places. Though, not likely overall...

  14. #59
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    I guess the only way to really tell would be to actually compare the bin files. If I could get this cherokee auto trans ecm and bin file defined and tuneable, then I would purchase another wrangler manual ecm to take apart and get the chip/bin out of it so it could be hacked/defined.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  15. #60
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    Have you gotten any further on your jeep obd1 project? I have a 95 wrangler 6 cyl auto,and am looking into doing the same thing. I would like to output everything out to my android tablet, but I am coming up empty as well... I have done a little development of apps for the android and have the IDE to do it, but I am running into the same problem you are. Of course it looks you like you are heads and sholders beyond my full grasp of the project... I did find something that my aide in the communicaiton between a tablet and the jeep. This guy is using bluetooth to connect to a honda.http://www.linszter.net/?lang=en http://www.linszter.net/2011/08/09/t...amhoz/?lang=en But I believe the crux of the matter is the what you have already denoted and that is the "bin" files. I am work with databases on a daily basis and quite often I have to compare 2 database to find modifications that were done. I use some free software called Schema Compare or something like that... I am not sure it will work on a bin file, but it would hurt to give it a shot. Please keep me in the loop I would like to be involved in something like this if you are still pursuing it.

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