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Thread: Hacking/tuning the jeep ecm

  1. #16
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Megasquirt looks like a very nice system and I have nothing personally aganst it. But in the back of my mind I just dont want to run a fully custom ecm. I cant help but thinking if something freak happens and the ecm get fried (bad alt, idiot hooks up booster cables wrong, many things could happen) I am now stuck with a jeep I cant drive untill I order a very expensive replacement. If I use a common junkyard sourced ecm/pcm, if something happens I could go into most any parts store or junkyard and get a replacement, I can also buy and keep a couple of spares.

    Looking on tunerpro at nothing but the dowload page, I saw a couple V6 ecm's that are supported. (but didnt dl and look at the definations) Plus I dont know much about these engines either.

    16196387
    94-95 3.1L (L82) A-body (Century, etc)
    ADS also spplies to W-Body

    16183247
    16197428
    94-95 Series 1 3.8L (L27) and 94-95 Series 3.8L SC (L67)



    16196401
    94-95 LQ1 3.4L V6
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns View Post
    Well it looks like the ecm in my jeep is whats being called a "SBEC" ecm. .
    Ahh I missed that its a Yj. I had TJ in my head. When I was looking for this stuff i was looking at the OBD2 ecu's.

  3. #18
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns View Post
    Megasquirt looks like a very nice system and I have nothing personally aganst it. But in the back of my mind I just dont want to run a fully custom ecm. I cant help but thinking if something freak happens and the ecm get fried (bad alt, idiot hooks up booster cables wrong, many things could happen) I am now stuck with a jeep I cant drive untill I order a very expensive replacement. If I use a common junkyard sourced ecm/pcm, if something happens I could go into most any parts store or junkyard and get a replacement, I can also buy and keep a couple of spares.

    Looking on tunerpro at nothing but the dowload page, I saw a couple V6 ecm's that are supported. (but didnt dl and look at the definations) Plus I dont know much about these engines either.

    16196387
    94-95 3.1L (L82) A-body (Century, etc)
    ADS also spplies to W-Body


    16183247
    16197428
    94-95 Series 1 3.8L (L27) and 94-95 Series 3.8L SC (L67)




    16196401
    94-95 LQ1 3.4L V6
    There's lots of choices for an GM ECM ready to go for 6 cylinder and well supported by TunerPro. Numbers go down because you want to replace/repin yours and use existing location under hood. The perfect choice is 1227727. But it is not sequential. Only one I know of that is under hood and sequential OBDI is for an LT1 16188051-16191333-$EE But it's for 8 cylinder, even if the PCM could do six cylinder building a six cylinder OptiSpark distributor would be mind boggling.

    Now if you would just forget about sequential and run a batch fire ECM the answer is simple. 1227727 GM ECM used in many six cylinder under hood cars.
    It made me remember a conversation with a Detroit Fuel Injection engeneer who has been working on developing EFI from it's inception for GM then Ford. Sequential FI was developed to meet EPA standards for idle and off idle. The way he described it was once an engine reaches like 1200 RPM it does not matter, injectors are firing so fast it does not make a hill of beans. More RPM and they hardly flinch at turning off, high RPM and they are just about wide open constantly. So why is SFI such a big deal?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  4. #19
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    The factory ecm is underhood, but I wouldnt ignore anoher option if it was a under dash unit. It wouldnt be much more work just to run some extra wire and mount it inside. Whats the datalog speed on that ecm? If my plan for tuning my factory one bombs, then I would want at least the same datalog speed at the 7427 I have in my cherokee, or faster.
    Also, It would be nice if I could reuse as many of my factory sensors as I could. I already have a 1x cam sensor, and it look a lot like the gm ones I have seen pictured on here. Its also a speed denisity (MAP) based system. I think DIS would be a added plus, if possiable. I dont really want to swap to a older modded non FI distributor, I would want a crank triggered system. I know my factory crank trigger would not work, as the notches in the flywheel wont match up to anything gm uses. But my harmonic blalancer has a nice lip around it that would lend itself to being machined real easy.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  5. #20
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    1227727 is the same as your 97427, even the memcal looks the same. It is an underhood weather proof version of the 1227730 that looks like your 97427.

    Not sure about all sensors, when I checked the 2001 to 2004 4.0L tuned port intake it looked like TPS, MAP, IAC and injectors would work. I had one for an old 258 I was going to do a 4.0L HO head on.

    Never checked the Jeep distributor because I was going to do this:
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...BI-Conversions!

    If going to DIS jeep has a distributor with just a cam sensor on top, no cap...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  6. #21
    Carb and Points!
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    The SBEC2 in the pre-OBD2 4.0 HO also acts as a TCU and as a stone age body control module. You like your power door locks (y/n)? You have to retain it on some level, even if it does not control the engine any longer, or else rewire the entire vehicle. This means the odd 8v volt Chrysler triggering pattern needs to be retained, too, for AT vehicles. Transmission control is relatively straightforward if AT as the AW4 is the A340x in Toyota products (Supra/Taco) is whatever Volvo called their flavor of the Aisin-Warner slushbox. If push comes to shove, the AW4 is easily controlled... I don't have the link handy, but one guy on the Jeep forums set his up push button style a la Edsel. :P

    B&G can tune the SBEC2, they have screenshots of Tunerpro on their website. Gut feeling says they took some of the turbo Dodge ECU knowledge, and were kicked info from one of the large tuning companies that decided not to pursue older vehicles. http://www.bgperformancepcm.com/

    I'd like to tune the stock SBEC2, personally. The 411 PCM is also cool, but there's something elegant about not having to invent cam/crank pickups. MS1/MS2 is a your mileage may - and will - vary proposition.
    Last edited by Alioth; 12-02-2011 at 12:03 PM.

  7. #22
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Sure sounds like that Piggy Back tuner would take care of any engine mod tuning you need without all the other issues with tranmission and body control issues...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  8. #23
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alioth View Post
    The SBEC2 in the pre-OBD2 4.0 HO also acts as a TCU and as a stone age body control module. You like your power door locks (y/n)? You have to retain it on some level, even if it does not control the engine any longer, or else rewire the entire vehicle. This means the odd 8v volt Chrysler triggering pattern needs to be retained, too, for AT vehicles. Transmission control is relatively straightforward if AT as the AW4 is the A340x in Toyota products (Supra/Taco) is whatever Volvo called their flavor of the Aisin-Warner slushbox. If push comes to shove, the AW4 is easily controlled... I don't have the link handy, but one guy on the Jeep forums set his up push button style a la Edsel. :P

    B&G can tune the SBEC2, they have screenshots of Tunerpro on their website. Gut feeling says they took some of the turbo Dodge ECU knowledge, and were kicked info from one of the large tuning companies that decided not to pursue older vehicles. http://www.bgperformancepcm.com/

    I'd like to tune the stock SBEC2, personally. The 411 PCM is also cool, but there's something elegant about not having to invent cam/crank pickups. MS1/MS2 is a your mileage may - and will - vary proposition.
    This is in a soft top manual transmission jeep wrangler. It controlls nothing but the engine.
    I have forgotten one thing. It also regulates the alternator. But that wouldnt be hard to bypass, as there are kits to convert it.
    I too have come upon BG preformance while googleing. I shot off a nice lengthy email to them explaining my situation, and my desires, and asked if they had any options, or knew of any. That was monday, I have had no response. I have a feeling I wont get one. Mabey I should call.


    Eaglemark, I have one of those cam sensors from the 99 and up 4.0. I picked it up at the pull a part for cheap. The engine I got it from was stripped to the block and the cylinders got rained in. That cam sensor was about the only thing left on it that was good. I got it and the wiring pigtail. Not really sure why I got it either, but I did. Its basicly a distributor cut in half and the sensor stuck on top. The stock 91 and up 4.0 dist has nothing in it but the rotor and 1x cam sensor. I can take a couple pics of mine if you want to see it. Sometime around 94 or 95, they changed it slightly, and moved the sensors location inside the dist to where it can be replaced without removeing the dist and removing the gear and shaft from the housing.
    99 is when the 4.0 went DIS. Its also when they changed the intake manifold design. The 99 and up intakes are a popular swap onto older 4.0's for a slight power boost. I have one here but have just been too lazy to swap it on and see for myself.
    I looked at the 7730 on ebay and it doesnt look anything like the 7427. The plugs are on the side, the memcal is in a diffrent spot, and there is a 3rd yellow plug. What goes there? The 7727 has 4 plugs. What defanition would I want to use, I saw like 3 or 4 on tunerpros webside. Were they ever used with DIS? And also, what datalog speed are they?

    And last, I stumbled across this. Seems rather interesting.....
    http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...-ls1-pcms.html
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  9. #24
    Fuel Injected! d0nk3y's Avatar
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    When I first started out in "industry", I worked for Mitsubishi on a joint project with Chrysler calibrating the Talon / Eclipse 2.0L A588 engines (circa model year 1996). We used an "Interrogator box" or "Ibox" to record data and interface with the SBEC in the cars. They wouldn't give us a PCM that was changeable "real-time" (and I cannot remember what the heck they called it, but the only external difference was one wire broke out of the ecu and it was connected to run one way and disconnected to make changes. IIRC, of course.

    I used to have copies of the SBEC code and would make changes via hex editor and burning a new chip. The Ibox had two ZIF sockets - I'd put the new chip on the left and it would run the vehicle with my changes.... so there has to be a way. Give me some time, I'll check with my old coworkers to see if there is a way to do something. We were using the older SBEC controllers for sure, because the software guys on the project figured out a way to squeeze the additional OBDII code into the SBEC and saved the program millions of dollars not having to migrate to the SBECII.
    ~ Scot

  10. #25
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Sounds nice. I am definately not having much luck on my research. But I have been kinda busy/distracted lately.
    Definately keep me updated on what ya find out.
    Getting the chip out wont be the problem, geting the info on the chip into a format I can understand is.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  11. #26
    Carb and Points!
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    I'm guessing BG never got back to you, huh?

  12. #27
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Nope, never heard back from them. I havent called either, usally too busy during the day, and when I do have the time, I never think of it.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  13. #28
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Taken from another thread on this site:

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    ALDL.ds files are available from vehicle manufactures so scan tools can be made to work.

    So anyone know if one for my factory jeep ecm could be found and made to work with tunerpro? Would be nice if I could atleast scan and mabey datalog my stock ecm, just to see whats going on.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  14. #29
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    I don't think they are just out there for public, we are lucky to have the ones from GM.

    But that is only data and codes what is coming out of ECM on serial data line. Not what's on chip or where/how to change it.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  15. #30
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Yea I understand its only data coming out of the ecm, and not a way to tune. But I still think it would be nice to be able to datalog, even though I cant tune it. It might give more insight into possiable intermittent problems that can be tricky to track down. With 270K on all the original sensors (except o2 and injectors) I am just waiting for something to go out.

    So if the files are not out there for public use, how were the GM ones obtained?
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

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