94 HD 30 454 swap into 95 V6 P30 Van questions

[bobx]

I have a 95 P30 Step van with a v6, and A 94 HD 30 Chevy Van 454 that is on propane for a donor. Both have 4L80e transmissions and looks like a direct easy bolt it with near all the same wiring to the engine sensors etc,

The HD 30 Was a fleet vehicle converted to propane only. Mixer mounted on the top half of the TBI retaining the IAC TBS sensors. looks like all the other wiring is the same as the V6 to the distributor and EGR Coolant sensor, except different style units and vacuum controls located elsewhere,..... except looks like no Knock sensor on the 454.

The HD 30 computer, # 16196395 *86BHDKK533144559* is mounted under the drivers seat of the regular van cab.

It also has an Autotronic dual curve fuel management module on the firewall, but looks like it hasn't been used for years and has no wiring harness to it or traces of hacking anywhere else. So I don't know if the Computer has a chip in it for it to operate without gasoline and to operate the transmission or the transmission has been modified to work without the computer.

95 Utilimaster Step Van, I'd like to swap this into the V6 Van and initially hook up to gasoline. not expecting too much problems with getting the fuel lines to match up. And hoping the top of the TBI is the same as the V6 TBI of which I have a spare top half for and V6 injectors... but know the 454 TBI has a larger bore.....or just find another at the wrecker.... (I'm thinking running on smaller injectors might be more economical? and not sure the V6 is running properly now, at idle looks like way to much fuel spraying on the closed throttle plates and is pig on fuel for anything other than highway driving..)

I haven't been able to find the ALDL terminal in this yet. but can see the computer easy on a ledge behind the fuse box on the side of the dash standing beside it with the door open.
Sometimes the check engine light comes on, but goes off when restarting..most of the time and possibly relative to how long turned off. like more than a few seconds....

Looking up the 454 computer # brought me to this forum, I have no idea about programming ecu's and use a Mac.
Some info elsewhere suggested the V6 and 454 might use the same computer, but somewhere in this site it suggested there could be problems trying to run the 454 off the V6 Computer regardless of being the same.
I'm speculating the 454's computer will fit the V6's harness, but will have to take the dash apart to get at it, And or wondering if I should swap harness's
As the 454 doesn't appear to have a knock sensor and seeing reports some don't. The V6 harness not much different and not needing one hooked up anyway for the 454 and using the 454 computer....??

With no extra wiring on the HD 30, Would the computer be hacked or have a prom in it to run on propane and easy to replace with ???
As previously noted, has to have had something in it to make the transmission work.

Any suggestions on how this will work and what other problems might come up or verify what needs to be looked at, changed. before I start turning bolts.
I don't own it quite yet, it's not going anywhere soon, the owner is using it for storage and planning on taking the box and power tailgate off and scrapping it...and will likely let me open up the ECU to what's in it before committing to take it..or take it anyway at the price it's being offered and resell it. Can take everything including the transmission. Just the radiator is shot, (so also doing a compression test before installing).

After I get into it and running on Gas, I'll likely be looking to convert back to propane or dual fuel, wood gas and looking for another management system anyway, seeing there no support for the Autotronics and don't know if it was working anyway, not having any harness for it.

Thanks for your inputs. bobx.

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[1project2many]

Welcome.

The factory GM 454 ecm may have a custom chip but it's not that difficult to buy a copy of a stock or mildly modified calibration. If the V6 uses the same # ecm (16196395) then you can use the chip from the 454 computer inside it. If you remove the cover from the 454 computer and look at the chip you should be able to identify it. It might say BHDK or have the part number 16194642 or just 4642, That particular calibration for the 454 was used in both G and P vans.

The V6 injectors are too small... they won't deliver enough fuel. The V6 vans were never as goo9d on fuel in town as people thought they should be. They had to use a bunch of fuel to get the van moving so a lot of stop and go driving really caused the economy to plummet. I think I saw a for sale ad for a 454 throttle body on this forum recently.

The G and P van harnesses are somewhat different. Try to stay with the G van harness. If the computers have the same numbers then the harness will work.

The 454 TBI package can be tuned for more power and economy if a knock sensor and matching calibration are used.

Use the trans that is with the 454 unless it's really in rough shape. GM was known to save a few bucks by building the V6 trans for less torque.

If key has been off for at least 30 seconds, the check engine light should light when key is turned to "on." If you turn the key off and on quickly the check engine light might not light.

Skip the aftermarket controller. It's easier to have a special chip installed with a switch to change between calibrations.

Hope this helps.

[bobx]

Thanks,

On closer inspection I found the wiring harness for the Autotronics unit. very cleanly installed and the plugs for it fell down beside the vacuum controller for the EGR and looked like apart of that harness. (lots of road grime on it to help hide all)
That harness appears to connected by splices and plugs into the wiring into the distributor and EGR. IAC area wiring harness as well as another part running down to the transmission.

The chip inside the 454's computer is a Delco 4643 BHDK, marked on the top, (different numbers again on the side) The white sticker on the chip inside the chip housing is Delco 8020 3313

Still nothing seen on the 454 that looks like a knock sensor, but mute comparing to the V6 now seeing it has a few other big differences... The 454 has an odd long sensor with 3 wire plug down behind the crank damper on the drivers side as well as an extra electric vacuum block shaped control with no mounting bracket like the EGR one sitting beside the thermostat and no obvious place for the vacuum lines to go....Air cleaner control. that the V6 doesn't have. ??
. Otherwise same sender in the middle of the block normally a temperature or oil pressure, I see where the other temperature sensor is on the front beside the thermostat housing and EGR and distributor, TPS IAC wiring the same.

When I have time will dig out the v6's computer and see what it is and in it, (and find the ALDL) But while looks like they have most of the same connections more or less, significantly different.... I'm sure the 454 won't run properly with some of them using the V6 harness or need to change something..set up as another engine closer to the same as the v6 for sensors.

Some of those 454 controls don't look essential to run and when switching to propane, most of them not needed except ? to run the Transmission.
If possible I'd think an old style HEI would be better to eliminate the computer controlled advance....if fits these engines, I yet to find find anyone using one other than an after market MSD unit...

I'd still like to run it on Gas before switching to propane. but looks like I'd need to switch harness to do, or learn how to hack the computer ??.

[EagleMark]

This has got to be the weirdest swap we have ever seen! Like to see some pictures for these things your noticing that are not part of the EFI... if you could?

There's lots of things we can change in a chip for the PCM, but not sure any will help with things being so differant, I'm not even sure what your doing yet?

[bobx]

Essentially want to put that HD 30 Chevy Van 454 into the V6 Step Van with as little extra work and cost, extra parts, programming? as possible, Using what I have handy and or bypassing or eliminating EFI controls where possible, Then switching it back to propane when I get all the hardware fuel lines or another fuel management system needed....

The bolt in part is the easiest, Straight same bolt in with the mounts and fuel lines and basic electrics, ignition starter etc. just getting around the computer wiring with that computer controlled transmission, other odd items like speedo etc that might controlled and not changing the harness if possible ...

Otherwise I'd swap in a carb manifold and standard HEI ignition and with propane it could be the same. But as set up now has a fuel management and transmission control system to make everything work and looks not compatible with the V6's. or maybe with a few minor modifications, hacks....?
With propane looks like pretty much all the usual controls for the TPS and IAC not needed as well as EGR. just need the spark and transmission controls which I think are controlled by vacuum and a speed sensor.