Hello!

[TerryD]

Hey everyone, I'm Terry. I've been delaying my entrance into the EFI world for years now. Blaming my lack of money/time/ect for it. Well, I think I've finally overcome the mental block and I'm ready to start into this. I've been looking at EFILive since everything I'll be doing in the foreseeable future are swaps. I own two BlackBox Vortec trucks and have a 84 Monte Carlo I'd like to do a LSX swap in plus my Dad's Duramax and possibly even a LSX swap into my K5.

THE PLAN:

0411 swap the 00 K2500 5.7L/4L80E truck and make small changes (headers, possibly cam/roller rockers ect) and tune for them to help me learn the system and adjust for changes. Possibly a 6.0/7.4/8.1 swap into it in the future, but I'm not ready to make that call just yet.

Then I'll make a decision about what I'm wanting to do to the K5 and Monte Carlo, hopefully with a little understanding/experience under my belt.

I've been lurking alot, looking at the older OBD1 stuff too. I have a 89 Camaro RS and a 86 CCQ-Jet IROC that I may try my hand at sometime in the future as well, but they both sit 99.999% of the time since they are both so clean and complete. Those are my retirement plans or possibly my kids inheritance....

[dave w]

I like your plan. The 0411 swap will be a good "Come up to Speed" learning experience.

dave w

[Hog]

Hey everyone, I'm Terry. I've been delaying my entrance into the EFI world for years now. Blaming my lack of money/time/ect for it. Well, I think I've finally overcome the mental block and I'm ready to start into this. I've been looking at EFILive since everything I'll be doing in the foreseeable future are swaps. I own two BlackBox Vortec trucks and have a 84 Monte Carlo I'd like to do a LSX swap in plus my Dad's Duramax and possibly even a LSX swap into my K5.

THE PLAN:

0411 swap the 00 K2500 5.7L/4L80E truck and make small changes (headers, possibly cam/roller rockers ect) and tune for them to help me learn the system and adjust for changes. Possibly a 6.0/7.4/8.1 swap into it in the future, but I'm not ready to make that call just yet.

Then I'll make a decision about what I'm wanting to do to the K5 and Monte Carlo, hopefully with a little understanding/experience under my belt.

I've been lurking alot, looking at the older OBD1 stuff too. I have a 89 Camaro RS and a 86 CCQ-Jet IROC that I may try my hand at sometime in the future as well, but they both sit 99.999% of the time since they are both so clean and complete. Those are my retirement plans or possibly my kids inheritance....

The good thing about your truck is that it is a 3/4 ton and has the "better" cats and headpipes.
1/2 ton headpipes/cats on left(dual 1 7/8" diameter(great for lwo rpm torque, bad for power), 3/4 ton 2-3/4-3" pipes.cats on right




Even if just tuning on the old blackbox PCM, you will notice decent gains. The 0411 will allow you to use EFILive with its better 512kb PCM support. EFILives 98-00 Blackbox PCM support is kinda lame.
A nice 8.1 swap would be great.

On my 97 reg can 2wd I ran teh Hooker Competition Series longtubes with ceramic coating. 2462-1hkr, they have lasted coming up on 15 years now. They have 1 5/8" primaries and 2 1/2" collector . 2462 hkr is black painted, 2462 1hkr is for ceramic coated, 2462-2hkr is a full stainless steel construction. 2462 3hkr gets you somne of Hookers newer Titanium or Black ceramic coatings.
I used to go through a set of cheap non coated headers every year for 3 years straight. The ceramoic coating payed for itself many times over.
Hooker makes a 2806-1HKR from their SUPER COmpetition Series which features equal length 1 3/4" primaries and 3" collectors, they are a bit expensive though. 2806 hkr for black painted, 2806 1hkr ceramic coated.

I added the headers, dual 2 1/2" custom bent exhaust into a dual in dual out muffler into dual 4" pipes that exits before teh pass. side tire and got a very mild Fastchip PCM tune (only power adding changes were a slightly leaned WOT PE mode fuel multiplier), stock timing was used, TM 100% disabled and shift points optimized. The exhaust and tune literally felt like I dropped a 383 under the hood,
Tune, 3.08 to 4.10 gears, and exhaust dropped ET by over a second.
With your exhaust, you could add a nice set of shorty headers and swap out teh muffler and have a decent exhaust. Of course you would have more gains with a longtubes, but the shorty headers would be an easy install for your truck.(So long as you get the stock manifold to headpipes connections loosened.

Welcome to the site.
peace
Hog

[TerryD]

I like your plan. The 0411 swap will be a good "Come up to Speed" learning experience.

dave w

Thanks! After looking around some, I figured I could learn the most the fastest by having a controller similar to what I want in the end and in something that gets driven enough to actually learn on. It's my DD 100% of the time and gets about 30% use as a family hauler. 2000 OBS Crew Cab 2500 4x4 truck.

The good thing about your truck is that it is a 3/4 ton and has the "better" cats and headpipes.
1/2 ton headpipes/cats on left(dual 1 7/8" diameter(great for lwo rpm torque, bad for power), 3/4 ton 2-3/4-3" pipes.cats on right

...

I added the headers, dual 2 1/2" custom bent exhaust into a dual in dual out muffler into dual 4" pipes that exits before teh pass. side tire and got a very mild Fastchip PCM tune (only power adding changes were a slightly leaned WOT PE mode fuel multiplier), stock timing was used, TM 100% disabled and shift points optimized. The exhaust and tune literally felt like I dropped a 383 under the hood,
Tune, 3.08 to 4.10 gears, and exhaust dropped ET by over a second.
With your exhaust, you could add a nice set of shorty headers and swap out teh muffler and have a decent exhaust. Of course you would have more gains with a longtubes, but the shorty headers would be an easy install for your truck.(So long as you get the stock manifold to headpipes connections loosened.

Welcome to the site.
peace
Hog

Thanks! I noticed the head pipe differences doing a double oil change on the K2500 and our 99 Suburban K1500 one day. I was AMAZED at the difference. As for headers, I'm looking at the all stainless JBA headers. They showed a 50ft/lb gain over stock without a tune, I'm interested to see what they'll gain with a little bit of tweaking. This thing is a DD and work truck so I want everything to last as long as possible when I work on it. When towing it spends a good bit of time in 3rd gear and wound up tight on the highway, so the higher RPM gains will be fine I think. I was considering a cam swap as well, but have not looked much into what cam to get.

I have "rigged" up a DD2000 file that matches the L31 pretty well so I can look at cam profiles. I tried the LT1 cam, but I think the power gains on top are not worth it looking at the lower RPM losses. I realize that DD2000 is grossly generous with numbers, but I generally use it to just see the change in the power curves so I get an idea of how the new cam will behave. I've also considered a intake manifold change, but then I'm getting a little over invested in this truck when building the Monte Carlo is what I really want to work on and I could probably get better returns from an engine swap in the truck vs spending over $500 (up to $1400 it looks like) on an intake that will/could work with my L31.

I've been wanting a different muffler on the truck, something with a bit of sound. I've been looking at the Flow Master 50 series for it. Mellow and shouldn't drone at cruising RPMs, but I'm still on the fence about it.

As for the gears, it's already geared 4.10. It's a heavy pig and I'm looking for towing gains and really interested in the lean cruise. It gets about 14mpg on the interstate right now. About 11mpg around town, but that probably won't change much because of the short trip I have to get to work. It gets about 7 miles put on it a day for commuting. When we take it to town though, you're looking at 45min-1hr in the 60-70mph range. That's where I'm looking for some gains. Also, if I get good results from this, I'll probably do the swap on our K1500 Suburban as well and work out the lean cruise on it. It gets about 15-16mpg on the highway, maybe a little better if I'm driving and we're in the flat land. We saw 17.8mpg out of it in Ohio one time visiting the wife's family.

[Hog]

I havent layed with DD myself, but maybe it spits out gross numbers vs. teh SAE power numbers our L31's are rated with. The Vortec 350 L31 is rated at 255 sae net hp@4600rpm and 330 sae net lb/ft torque@2800rpm. 255 sae net is roughly 320 sae gross hp. Maybe thats why the numbers seem inflated, but again, I have no experience with DD2000.

The cam that is used in our Vortec 350's was also used in the 1996+ L30 Vortec 305 and also in the 1994-1996 iron head LT1's that were found in the 94-94 Caprice and Impala SS, Buick Roadmaster and Cadillac D-bodies as well as all the station wagons. This cam was also used in the 1994-1996 4.3 V6(265cid Vee 8) that was rated at 200hp@5000rpm and 240lb/ft@2400rpm. The 4.3 V8 was a GEN 2 SBC just like the LT1, it has the RPO code L99, The 4.3 L99 has a short 3.00" stroke. If you take this crankshaft and the L99 4.3's longer 5.94" PM rods along with a Vortec 350 piston, it gives you a low buck Chev 302 SBC.

The cam that is used in a all of these GEN 1-E and GEN 2 SBC's has specs of 191º/197º duration @ 0.050" with lift of 0.412"/0.428" on a 111ºLSA.

Another very popular GM roller is the cam that was used in the Mercruiser/GM marine engines supplied by GM, also in the 350hp/400lb/ft Ramjet 350 and the 340hp/435lb/ft HT383 crate engine. It has specs of 196º/206º 0.431"/0.451" with a 109ºLSA. Many guys have had great low rpm torque with this cam.

Another stock GM roller cam that might be of interest is the 1996 LT4 Corvette cam that was found in all manual trans 1994 Vettes. This LT4 was rated at 330sae nethp@5800rpm and 340lb/ft torque@4500rpm. The LT4 has LS1 power in the conventional 350's 4" bore/3.48" stroke.
Specs of 203º/210º duration at 0.050" lift, lift of 0.76"/0.480" lift (using the stock LT4 1.6:1 full roller rockers-LT4 is the ONLY GM V8 ever built that uses full roller fulcrum and trunnion bearings) LSA is 115º.

Also some have used the ZZ3/4 roller cam. It has specs of 208º/221º duration@0.050" lift of 0.474"/0.510" on a 112ºLSA. Too much lift with stock retainers though.

STock 1996/97 LT1 camshaft specs are 205º/207º duration, with lift of 0.447"/0.449" with an LSA of 117º. There are few different LT1 cams though. This GEN 2 rebuild link used to list them, but they are no longer included.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2000...et-lt1-engine/

Fast355 has tried out many cam combos in the L31 Vortec 350's. He is a good cam resource on this site for sure.


So far as fuel mileage gains, thats one area where I havent had much success at all.

peace
Hog

[TerryD]

I'm not sure about the gross/net thing. Never having access to a dyno of any form has made hp numbers more of a talking point to me. Plus measuring hp on anything but a engine dyno seems to be a pretty vague process with numbers all over the place because of a dropped decimal place or gust of wind in the wrong direction during a pull.

Thanks for the info on the stock LTX/Vortec cams though! I think I've seen other threads from you on the subject around the net and may have actually gotten my L31 cam specs from a thread you had replied to, but I can't remember where now.

I figure any LTx cam would put down power gains, I just want to make sure they are useable gains in my truck. It has a factory stall around 2000RPM and with the 4.10's it stays above 2k most anytime I'm on the highway. In town I run in 3rd gear so I'm not constantly shifting out of OD and the RPMs say up there too. That Mercruiser/HT383 cam looks like a good fit just examining numbers. I may try to find more specs on it so I can plug it into DD and see how the curve looks. Thanks!

Also, Hog, do you have a build thread on your truck I could check out? I doubt my truck will be worth the marine intake swap, but I would like to see some more about your truck.

[TerryD]

I've been reading around this evening and wow, you guys have my head spinning. At this point, I'm considering selling off everything but my truck and cell phone and investing that money into computer programming classes so I have a clue what you are talking about 1/2 the time......