Need guidance GM TBI install 1228747

[jlsmith]

It may go into CL if the engine is totally warmed up and revved up for awhile, but will soon go back OL. It will/should go CL after warmed up and driving. In the TunerPro Data Acquisition file there is a Loop Status bit that will change to Closed when this happens.

Knock counts on these old ECM does not always start at 0, so when looking just see that it is not moving, adding counts as engine runs. It may start at 1 or 79 or? It's an accumulator more then a counter.

There is no Spark Advance in the data stream of this ECM.

Here's the info thread for the 1228747 ECM with files needed for TunerPro RT, also some wiring diagrams and stock chip/bin files
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-4F

I looked at the thread with the information on the 1228747 ECM.. I didn't see the bin file that I have (AKWC). I downloaded TunerPro RT but have no idea where to start. At this point I just want to monitor what I have. HELP.. I did get a chance to check fuel pressure and it was 11 psi. According to Mitchell 9-13 is ok.

[jlsmith]

Maybe you can record and post a TunerPro RT data log .xdl file of the TBI engine running for us to look at?

dave w

Idle Attempt 51114.xdl
Here is a log file with engine running idle. Hopefully it can tell you guys something that you can share with me. I'm at a loss at this point in what to do.

[dave w]

Idle Attempt 51114.xdl
Here is a log file with engine running idle. Hopefully it can tell you guys something that you can share with me. I'm at a loss at this point in what to do.

If possible, to help us save time, please post the .ads / .adx file you are using with the posted .xdl file. Posting the .bin file your currently using is very helpful also.

dave w

[dave w]

Idle Attempt 51114.xdl
Here is a log file with engine running idle. Hopefully it can tell you guys something that you can share with me. I'm at a loss at this point in what to do.

I looked at the data log. It seems the O2 sensor voltage stays close to about .430 VDC, for the entire data log. Flat out, that is not normal behavior for an O2 sensor when the engine temperature is above 160 F!

The Battery voltage started real high, slightly about 15.2 VDC, and at the end of the log, was about 12.5VDC.

The MAP sensor seems OK.

dave w

[jlsmith]

If possible, to help us save time, please post the .ads / .adx file you are using with the posted .xdl file. Posting the .bin file your currently using is very helpful also.

dave w

Dave, I used the adx file that Mark posted here http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-4F
file $4F-1228747-HD-V1.1.adx.. The bin file that is on the prom is AKWC.. which I didn't see on the list that Mark posted.

I didn't note this but the log file that I posted was an attempt at running engine at idle, but wouldn't so there are many restarts. It would only run for a few minutes.

[dave w]

Data log analysis is time consuming, having the files ready to download is greatly appreciated and saves time.

I'm not with the vehicle, I'm looking at a data log only. I can see the restarts in the data log, the MAP Kpa goes to 100 and the RPM go to ZERO. I can see the battery voltages are not correct. I can see the O2 sensor voltage is running flat line, which is not correct. I can't see the injector spray pattern. Are both injectors spraying the same pattern? I can't see the fuel pressure in the data log. I think testing the fuel pressure is a good plan. I can't look at the distributor cap, distributor rotor, spark plugs, or wires.

The basics, fuel, air, and spark will keep the engine running. For the moment I'm suspect of the fuel pump losing fuel pressure because it could be on it's last legs. I'm suspect of the injectors quit spraying fuel because the computer injector driver is overheating and stops turning on the injectors. I'm suspect that the ignition module is faulty and stops sending the RPM signal to the computer. I'm thinking the engine dies because it's losing fuel or spark. Maybe the wiring is old and has corrosion causing bad electrical connections on the injectors, distributor, or ignition coil? A good visual assessment of everything is a good plan.

If the vehicle was in my shop, I'd walk over to my known good spare parts and swap parts to see what happens. I even have a fuel cell to use instead of the vehicle fuel pump. No everyone has spare parts like I have to troubleshoot problems with.

dave w

[jlsmith]

thanks for your input.. Things for me to check out. Yeah I don't have any spare parts laying around to be swapping out. I checked the fuel pressure and it was at 10-11 psi.. I know form what the service manual for that engine it should be between 9-13 psi. Just as a test to see what would happen a clamped off the return fuel line and supply pressure went up to 15 psi. This didn't seem to make a difference in the way it was running. What are your thoughts on that. I will start looking double checking connections and ignition components. Thanks for the help..

[dave w]

thanks for your input.. Things for me to check out. Yeah I don't have any spare parts laying around to be swapping out. I checked the fuel pressure and it was at 10-11 psi.. I know form what the service manual for that engine it should be between 9-13 psi. Just as a test to see what would happen a clamped off the return fuel line and supply pressure went up to 15 psi. This didn't seem to make a difference in the way it was running. What are your thoughts on that. I will start looking double checking connections and ignition components. Thanks for the help..

For the moment, lets consider the fuel delivery system adequate. I'm still thinking the injector spray pattern needs to be checked.

The system voltage is something that should be looked into. I think having the alternator bench tested is a good plan. Many parts stores where I live will bench test an alternator, usually without a fee.

What parts, if any have recently been replaced?

dave w

[jlsmith]

I can explain the system voltage. I don't have the alternator hooked up so the over voltage is a result from the charger hooked up. I will get the alternator hooked up to remove this issue.

As far as the injector spray pattern, I can see the pattern but not sure how it should look. Is there a test procedure for this?

I started this Jeep restoration 6 years ago and it has been on hold about 4 of those years. I did rebuild the throttle body at one point. I recently but on new plugs and wires and I replaced the MAP Sensor to try to eliminate the idle issue, didn't make a difference.

[92TBIVentura]

You can use a timing light to check the spray pattern, look for a nice cone shape pattern.

[jlsmith]

For the moment, lets consider the fuel delivery system adequate. I'm still thinking the injector spray pattern needs to be checked.

The system voltage is something that should be looked into. I think having the alternator bench tested is a good plan. Many parts stores where I live will bench test an alternator, usually without a fee.

What parts, if any have recently been replaced?
dave w

Dave, Well I replaced the Cap, Rotor and Coil.. and it still surges/hunts at what is supposed to be idle. When I look at the timing during this time it fluctuates from about 12-15 degress advanced. When it gets warmed up it won't stay running (runs for a few minutes and shuts off) it will fire right back up and continues doing the same. The fuel pressure is about 13-14 psi. The injectors seem to be spraying the same and is a cone shape pattern. I got the alternator hooked up so the voltage issue should be resolved. Is there a way to monitor cylinder firing, that would be helpful.

The ECM that I have is a 1228747 with bin code AKWC... I couldn't find that bin anywhere to load into TunerPro. Was doing a search and came accross this forum http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...1228747-a.html that had your fingerprints all over it. Do you know where I can get this bin, does it really matter or can I use what I was using when I data logging some information that you looked at for me?

[dave w]

Dave, Well I replaced the Cap, Rotor and Coil.. and it still surges/hunts at what is supposed to be idle. When I look at the timing during this time it fluctuates from about 12-15 degress advanced. When it gets warmed up it won't stay running (runs for a few minutes and shuts off) it will fire right back up and continues doing the same. The fuel pressure is about 13-14 psi. The injectors seem to be spraying the same and is a cone shape pattern. I got the alternator hooked up so the voltage issue should be resolved. Is there a way to monitor cylinder firing, that would be helpful.

The ECM that I have is a 1228747 with bin code AKWC... I couldn't find that bin anywhere to load into TunerPro. Was doing a search and came accross this forum http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...1228747-a.html that had your fingerprints all over it. Do you know where I can get this bin, does it really matter or can I use what I was using when I data logging some information that you looked at for me?

I'm thinking one possible cause for the engine shutting down after the engine warms up is an electrical component is overheating. Maybe the ignition module inside the distributor is overheating? Maybe an injector driver inside the computer is overheating?

Data logging with AKWC is fine. If / when, the need arises to change the AKWC .bin file, it appears the original chip will have to read. I can't find a copy of AKWC in my library, or the gearhead-efi.com library.

dave w

[jlsmith]

Update:

Found a 1227747 ECM w/ASDU bin at local Salvage Yard so couldn't pass it up. I know there is a lot more support for this ECM so thought it was a good thing, especially for 35 bucks.

So, I came home found the bin here on the site (ASDU) downloaded it along with $42-1227747-V5.2.adx and loaded into TunerPro. I would like some one to take a glance at the three attached log files and see if there are any issues. I'm sure there are. Hope that I'm going in the right direction to at least get this engine running. After the second run I went back and performed the IAC check and then adjust the idle screw a little to increase idle rpm.

Dave, I think by swapping the ECM out it made a difference and seems to run better.

[dave w]

I have mixed thoughts about the 1227747 vs 1228747. I like the expanded spark and timing tables used in the 1228747. There have been huge improvements in the 4F .adx / .xdf in recent years which is REALLY helpful. The 1228747 was mostly used with a TH400, so that's a plus for some vehicle applications.

I don't have time at the moment to look at the data logs. Maybe tomorrow I can reply back.

dave w

[EagleMark]

The only thing that the 1227747 ECM has over the 1228747 is the amount of time dedicated to the dissasembly of the 1227747 and then all that work put into the 1227747 $42 TunerPro RT .XDF file. There are many parameters that $42 has in the .XDF that the 1228747 $4F does not.

Probably due to vehicles available with the 1227747... the 1228747 $4F is just rare compared to $42. With time invested it could be as good or better!