Northstar DIS

[1project2many]

Does FAST still make the E-Dist? It wasn't super expensive last time I checked, although it's probably been years ago that I even looked.
Edit: Found this today http://www.azspeed-marine.com/faedeldi.html Doesn't seem like *that* much money.

I know little more than basics about the LS2 coils. Never ever heard of "DIS mode" before. I figured it was a made-up phrase used by a guy that didn't understand the system. AFAIK the LS2 coils require a positive input on the trigger line and the DIS systems trigger the negative side of the coil. Using that info you'd need to invert the control signal.

DIS coils from the 2.2, 2.5, and 60 deg engines can throw a spark over 1 and 1/4 inches long. The coils from the 90 deg V6 engine create enough voltage that they'll burn through their own insulation if spark's not given a path to ground. In the ecm, the spark control system can't vary the timing to individual cylinders. All cylinders get the same amount of advance. So LS2 coils would add little performance for the cost, complexity, and effort.

[JeepsAndGuns]

What I meant by wasted spark mode, was instead of firing the LS coils one at a time sequencially, fire two at a time. Basicly since the nortstar DIS module is designed for 4 coils, and not 8, simply hook up and trigger two of the LS coils at one time. That way the northstar dis module sill works like its ment to, its just firing two seperate coils, instead of one with two outputs. But I was not aware of how diffrently the coils work.

So let me see if I got this right:
The northstar coils fire by applying power and ground to them to charge them, then the ground is removed and causes the coils to discharge through the plug wires and fire the plugs.
The LS coils have power and ground applied to them, and then have a seperate wire that gets a positave signal witch triggers them to fire.

Is this correct? I'm wanting to learn here.

Is there anywhere I can get more details about that e-dist? They are really vauge on the discription of what is required to run it and what systems its compatable with.
I think I kinda really want to stick with as much junkyard parts as I can, just to keep things simple to find parts for.

[EagleMark]

Useing a rare and possibly discontiued aftermarket part is not simple or sustainable... that's why guys like Dave, me, 1project2many and many more use factory stuff and if we have to make custom hard machined pieces to use them. Hard parts are unlikely to ever fail, electronics, sensors modules installed on them are easily replaced.

[1project2many]

Much of the hardware and software I use for tuning OBDI ecm's is becoming unobtanium these days. And around here it's starting to get harder to find parts for vehicles only 15 years old. Between technology changes, GM's bankruptcy, Cash for Clunkers, and the huge demand for steel a couple of years ago things just aren't what they used to be. So the arguments I once used for sticking with OEM stuff aren't as powerful as they used to be. I bought a new in box Edist a couple of years ago for $200 and I felt it was a fair price. A good aftermarket ignition system plus new distributor would cost more than that. http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/attachme ... -rev-f.pdf"

What I meant by wasted spark mode, was instead of firing the LS coils one at a time sequencially, fire two at a time.

I believe that's what was meant in the other thread, too. Not that the LSx coils have wasted spark mode, but that he wanted to fire two coils from one trigger supplied by a waste spark DIS. The trigger for the LSx coils is (as I thought) a 5V positive signal. There's a "REF LOW" connection which is a ground path directly back to the ecm. Now if you are a lucky kind of guy you might be able to apply 5V to the trigger line and ground the REF LOW through the ignition module, but I wouldn't expect that method to work.

It's probably much easier to use "dumb" coils like Ford, Chrysler, and Toyota use. I just looked at the schematic for a 2010 E250 w/ 5.4 and it looks like this is a typical 2 wire coil designed to attach right to a plug. We get 150 to 200k on these without much trouble, although they can burn through the boots if the plugs aren't changed frequently enough. You'll want to ensure the resistance of two coils together isn't substantially greater than the resistance of one DIS coil.

Oh, and you've got the basic idea for both the typical and "smart" coils. The smart coils are always connected to 12V ignition and Gnd. When they receive +5V on the trigger line they are "armed." If the signal drops to near 0 within about 8ms the coil will fire when the signal drops. However, if the 5V signal stays high for more than about 8ms the coil will fire at 8ms to prevent overheating and will not re-arm unless the 5V trigger signal drops then rises again.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Humm, so you think there might be a way to use the coils that actually mount directly to the plug, instead of the LS ones that mount to the valve covers?
I am not too up to speed on newer stuff, but dont most of those type of coils have a long "stem" of sorts that goes way down a hole to where the spark plug is? But mabey diffrent ones could be found.
What would I want to look for when digging through the junkyards? I could take my multimeter with me and check resistance. Any idea what the caddy coils resistance are? And when you say substantially greater, like how much? No more than X ammount?

[Six_Shooter]

A shutter wheel is still a "trigger wheel". ;)

IIRC the '0411 will support DIS directly, so that should be a non-issue using the right code. I'm not up to speed on the '0411 stuff because I don't want to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars just to be able to tune it (and not in real time), but there are a few threads on TGO about using the '0411 in non-stock applications that I've briefly read through.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I hate that those last few posts got lost in forum transfer. There was some good info in there.
Can you post up the coil ohms again for the northstar coils and the ford coils, I did not write them down.

[EagleMark]

I still can not find out how to fix old forum. Some guys were in there and posting just fine, some guys got a ERROR page. I logged out and then I got the error page! Until I can fix it, if your logged in grab those posts and put them here. This thread posts was the only important information we didn't get.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Well the posts went missing from the old board first. So there was nothing to transfer over to this one. So I think they are pretty much gone forever. Too bad, there was some good info in the ohms reply explaining how ohms work when wired up diffrently.

[EagleMark]

That sucks, i tried so hard not to loose a minute, I think I was doing an import when the system was doing an auto backup, site crashed 2 minutes after... lost 2 days dam it...

[1project2many]

The real kicker for me was I'd left a window open to this thread in my pc and I had those posts there. When I got an error logging in in one window, I closed all of them. Maybe I can dig around the cache in my pc and see if I can find them. But if you search for "testing GM DIS coil" and "Ford DIS coil ohms" you should be able to get information.

To the guy wanting to mix and match sensors, ICMs, PCMs, and code, be careful of mixing parts. DIS systems are designed to interpret input signals of a specific type. The Northstar wheel is nothing like a 4 pulse wheel from a 5.7 Vortec. Using a 4 pulse wheel with the N* DIS module will result in no spark at all.

[Accrdwgnguy]

So I've been looking into doing this as I am building a car that will have little to no clearance at the firewall for a distributor, and it's a recycled junk build. So I'm talking to a local guy about making the wheels off of the CAD drawing from the Lukestaff site, and the guy said he'd be able to do it if the bottom corners of the notches can be a 1/16 radius. My question is would that affect the triggering at all? Instead of the sharp corners.

[???]

in my experience with the wheel. it seemed pretty sensitive. a buddy hand cut one, it was a bit thinner and touch bigger but still square corners. the car ran but timing wasn't right. if you invest in the effort to do this, I'd find a place that would cut it perfect. a few people have posted over they years they found places to do them, but only in quantity of 3 but for prettyccheap.


I'd think you could sell the extras. good luck. keep us posted. I still wanna get mine setup together, but just haven't

[Six_Shooter]

If someone does get some N* trigger wheels made, I'd be interested in picking up a couple or few... I plan to one day add N* DIS to a couple projects.

[1project2many]

If the depth of the notch is big enough then round corners will work. You will probably need to ensure the round cutter is 1/2 it's diameter past the depth of the squared holes. Then again, I've seen some poorly made wheels IMO that seem to work despite a lack of care.