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Thread: 12200411 set up for 700R4

  1. #16
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Thanks Robert!

    Back to 700R4 and lock up only in fourth gear...doesn't it need some kind of VSS from PCM to lock? This vehicle trans was controlled by ECM that has speed, no vacuum switch which IIRC only came in pre 87 Chevy Truck 700R4.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    Thanks Robert!

    Back to 700R4 and lock up only in fourth gear...doesn't it need some kind of VSS from PCM to lock? This vehicle trans was controlled by ECM that has speed, no vacuum switch which IIRC only came in pre 87 Chevy Truck 700R4.
    Vacuum switch was weird on those old 700r4s. It was only used for 2nd and 3rd gear lockup as a pressure switch controlled 4th gear lockup.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    ...Back to 700R4 and lock up only in fourth gear...doesn't it need some kind of VSS from PCM to lock? This vehicle trans was controlled by ECM that has speed, no vacuum switch which IIRC only came in pre 87 Chevy Truck 700R4 ...
    The 700R4 shifts are 100% mechanical (not controlled by any PCM / ECM). The TCC lockup is a simple 12 volt supply (no PWM etc.). It can be as simple or as complicated as you wish.

    The most simple means is a 12 volt ignition circuit, routed through a brake switch that interrupts the voltage, connected to a normal open pressure switch on the 4th gear circuit of the valve body (most / all 700R4 came with this switch in place). With this method the TCC is locked in 4th gear at all times - except when the brakes are applied.

    The next most complicated method adds a vacuum switch, which interrupts the the voltage when the vacuum drops (under load).

    The most complicated method adds a speed component - which in a TPI / TBI vehicle was controlled by the OBD1 ECM. If memory serves B&M used to offer such a kit.

    As long as the vehicle is not dreadfully underpowered the most simple method works just fine.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    The 700R4 shifts are 100% mechanical (not controlled by any PCM / ECM). The TCC lockup is a simple 12 volt supply (no PWM etc.). It can be as simple or as complicated as you wish.

    The most simple means is a 12 volt ignition circuit, routed through a brake switch that interrupts the voltage, connected to a normal open pressure switch on the 4th gear circuit of the valve body (most / all 700R4 came with this switch in place). With this method the TCC is locked in 4th gear at all times - except when the brakes are applied.

    The next most complicated method adds a vacuum switch, which interrupts the the voltage when the vacuum drops (under load).

    The most complicated method adds a speed component - which in a TPI / TBI vehicle was controlled by the OBD1 ECM. If memory serves B&M used to offer such a kit.

    As long as the vehicle is not dreadfully underpowered the most simple method works just fine.
    Except the simple method is a great way to smoke the tcc linings.

  5. #20
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    As long as the vehicle is not dreadfully underpowered the most simple method works just fine.
    The 5.3L should do fine even with the 35 inch tires as it was re-geared to 4:88 gear ratio. Although the aerodynamics of a brick at highway speed is a factor.

    So at 70 MPH should be forth and TCC locked I think it'll be fine. Now start pulling a mountain pass and? Seems like this is where the simple switch to unlock could be a benifit? If not it may be a lot of throttle and a harsh downshift to third?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  6. #21
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    Except the simple method is a great way to smoke the tcc linings.
    How's that?

    I could see if it were used improperly... or am I missing something?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    Except the simple method is a great way to smoke the tcc linings.
    Keeping the TCC locked up at highway speeds reduces / eliminates TC slip, and thereby reduces overall transmission temperatures.

    The OEM strategy generally follows this principle.

    In the late 1980s / early 1990s I ran a 355 / 700R4 combination in as S10 pickup wired just like this - 200K later when I sold it, the drivetrain still worked just fine.

  8. #23
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I've successfully used the Superior Transmission K058 ( http://www.superior-transmission.com...age.cfm?ID=186 ) with a modified 700R4. The 700R4 had been modified so a manual toggle switch (wired in series with the brake switch) could be used to lockup the torque converter. The vacuum switch replaced the manual toggle switch.

    dave w

  9. #24
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Well since Dave has one solution I figured I'd add another idea to this thread for future reference. It may be the answer to all proper signals of gear postion to 0411 to operate TCC lock in 2 through 4 if someone wanted to spend $100.

    http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...prod/prd60.htm

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  10. #25
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    In post #10 I mentioned that the PCM receives an input from the transmission with respect to the current gear the transmission is in. The PCM may also receive an input from a transmission mounted Park / Neutral Position Switch with respect to the current shifter position. These are not the same thing.

    For example, with the shifter in the 4th or overdrive position, the transmission is free to shift up and down through all 4 forward gears - the shifter position however would have never changed.

    That kit could send a signal to the instrument cluster to show what position the gear shift was in, but this is not synonymous with the gear that the transmission may be in.

    The short answer is - that kit will not be of assistance with respect to TCC lockup.

  11. #26
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    Bringing this one back from the dead since I am wondering if you guys ever got a 411 to control the TC lockup on a 700R4. I am swapping out a LT1 for a 5.3.
    I know I can easily control lockup with a switch (already have this) but ECU control would be cool so I don't have to remember to flip the switch.

  12. #27
    Fuel Injected! Lextech's Avatar
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    I have often thought that if we had access to all of the EGR parameters that we might be able to use the EGR circuit to control TCC. That may be a goofy thought but, it won't go away.

    Jeff
    98 GMC RCSB, 5.0, 4L80e, Moser M60, 4.10 gear, Homemade twin turbo w/Junkyard T3 turbos, 24x CNP, 12200411 PCM.

  13. #28
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I sent the information below in a PM. Hopefully, when others find this tread in the future, the information below will help.

    dave w

    Likely the only way an '0411 would be able to control a 700R4 TCC is in 4th gear only.

    The TCC information below is from the "Internet"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCFOphXfEbQ (Includes Vacuum Switch, hopefully the 4th gear only TCC harness is sold separately)

    Site Unknown
    "Set the TCC duty cycle max table to 100 & the TCC duty cycle min table to 90. This is to eliminate the TCC slip, nothing to do with rpm oscillation. You may have to raise the TCC lock up speed. With a cam like your's, there will be low rpm light throttle surge. Tuning will help, but will not completely eliminate low rpm surging/bucking."

    Site Unknown
    "From the factory the PCM pulses the pressure solenoid for the torque converter lockup to maintain slip and engage smoothly. To disable it you simply set the entire max table to 100% and the entire min table to 99%. This will make the torque converter act like an on/off switch which is disabling the PWM."

    Site Unknown
    "You should set the entire "PWM" table Min to 98 and the Max to 100%"

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