Bringing TBI and Multi Port Fuel Injection to a New Level.     EFI Conversions and Tuning! Seattle to Portland! E-mail Tuning Consultant!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Performance tuning the 4L60E and 4L80E Transmission VIA PCM

  1. #1
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Age
    57
    Posts
    10,477

    Performance tuning the 4L60E and 4L80E Transmission VIA PCM

    Well you guys know I'm into my first 16197427 PCM but it's a manual... BUT i have a 16188051 PCM in my LT1 with 4L60E that I am starting to play with...

    Before I waste a perfectly good, inspected and serviced with synthetic trans I thought I better get some experience before I go to far.

    First thing I found out was the 1995 Cadillac LT1 with towing package RPO V4P was a drastic improvement in shifting from factory! Can you believe a Cadillac had better shift points then an Impala SS? Well it does. So I found the V4P bin file and did a lot of comparing and liked the looks of it.

    Driving my 1994 RoadmaSSter, that has the towing package, but same shift points as Impala SS was much better, higher shift points more performance oriented and just felt better.

    The only other thing I have done to tranny is changed was "Shift Time (sec) Vs. %TPS Vs. Shift, Normal Mode, Low Alt. and High Alt". I cut the shift time in half from approx .60 to .30 and they do seem firmer.

    The only reason I touched them was there is another table "Shift Time (sec) Vs. %TPS Vs. Shift, Performance, Low Alt. and High Alt" and these are all set to "0.00 But have no idea what makes the PCM go from "Normal" to "Performance" mode. I'm guessing I will find a TPS parameter somewhere. But both tables are the same TPS readings? So maybe it's switched by a MAP reading?

    So what else can be done? Lots of questions on line pressures? Better question is what should NOT be done.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  2. #2
    Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Lakes Region, NH
    Age
    47
    Posts
    2,756

    Re: Performance tuning the 4L60E and 4L80E Transmission VIA

    I don't usually increase LP substantially on an old or unknown trans. a 10% increase is usually enough to notice. I will decrease desired shift times, adjust the up and downshift speed vs tps, and change the TCC lockup. GM did a nice job of making power with the stock LT1 IMO. The trick is to make the car feel like an SS should feel.

  3. #3
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Age
    57
    Posts
    10,477

    Re: Performance tuning the 4L60E and 4L80E Transmission VIA

    There's so many places to change line pressure I didn't even touch them yet. Main/max line pressure is 90 would increasing this be an overall increase?

    I did change shift times, a few times and ended up with 0s like in the performance shift time table. Still not sure what paremeter changes to performance mode? Was much better. Biggest and easiest change beleive it or not was the Caddilac V4P Towing package. My car has towing package but tranny paremeters are same for Caprice, 9C1, Impala SS and Roadmaster. Only the caddy got better tranny shift points. Big improvement. Only changed shift times and a few MPH settings from it. Drives nice now, stays in gears longer and actually has a feel, rather then 123 slush 4 slush all day!

    Was wet yesterday and I floored it at about 10 mph and when it shifted to 2nd the tire just lit up. Need posi!

    Your right about LT1 power from factory. I did play with WOT fuel, used a WOT locker program that does something to bin and locks WOT BLM to 128. From there it was easy to add fuel to WOT and watch O2 sensor readings go up and hoover at .890 to .920 when I got 20% more in. I run 93 NO ethonal fuel and added timing 2 degrees at a time from 1400 RPM 45 MAP up. No knock till I got 6 degrees in then only mid range slight knock retard, on a cool humid rainy day. So it would probably be fine all year long but I took out the last 2 degrees.

    Data maaster is way cool too! I still have not got TunerPro EE.ADX file to work so I am on trail datamaster. Used the 1/4 mile times from stock tune and got 15.8 second quater mile. Now I am at 14.3 quater mile. Big touque increase on the Datamaster Dyno too. I think I'll have to buy it!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  4. #4
    Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Lakes Region, NH
    Age
    47
    Posts
    2,756

    Re: Performance tuning the 4L60E and 4L80E Transmission VIA

    For overall changes in LP I'd use the two main LP vs speed tables. Max pressure of 90, ok, make sure nothing goes above that. Well, maybe 92 psi, just cause ya can't leave it stock. :) Then attempt to dial in gear changes by desired shift time. Watch desired times vs actual on scantool, and use the modifier tables to make spot increases in LP if the trans is having trouble achieving desired shift times. Remember, as you increase main LP, the garage shift LP may need to be reduced to keep trans from slamming into gear. This trick is good for engines with lumpy cam.

    Performance shift tables are never used in a stock Impy SS. Only used in the the T/A with the installed "performance / normal" shift button. Similar button can be installed in B-body. Here's some helpful info with a copy of Scott Mueller's original button install writeup for the ImpalaSS forum.
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/ca ... 07975.html

    Datamaster software is nice. I don't mess with other stuff very often anymore. Not sure if we can buy non-ethanol fuel here. Seems strange to offer E10 only in a climate as humid as ours. All sorts of small engine problems from that combination. And I'm hearing about more rusty tanks and sending units, too. Can't wait to see what happens to the lead and tin coated fuel parts in my '36 Plymouth when I get it on the road.

  5. #5
    Electronic Ignition! Cadride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Iowa City, IA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14
    Looking to make some tuning changes to my tranny before I take it out for rebuild this winter. The tranny has a stock tune, stock converter, Trans-go HD2 shift kit and Corvette servos. By spring that will be a different story. I am just starting to use TunerPro and I was comparing the attached V4P tune to mine and noticed that the tables are completely different (the numbers in the tables are very erratic), is that because I am using Advanced $0D TP5 v250.xdf for my truck and not the one for the Cadillac? For starters, do I need to copy all the tranny info from the V4P bin to mine as far as the 4L60E settings go?
    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #6
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Age
    57
    Posts
    10,477
    I'm not sure about taking settings from one bin to another, let alone one mask to another, then there are differences in 94 to 95 trans.

    To see the values in the Caddy VP4 bin you need to use the mask for that PCM which is $EE. So correct $0D won't work.
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...rmation-EE-EEB

    There's also a lot of differant tables and changing one can effect others.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  7. #7
    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Jacksonville NC
    Age
    43
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by Cadride View Post
    Looking to make some tuning changes to my tranny before I take it out for rebuild this winter. The tranny has a stock tune, stock converter, Trans-go HD2 shift kit and Corvette servos. By spring that will be a different story. I am just starting to use TunerPro and I was comparing the attached V4P tune to mine and noticed that the tables are completely different (the numbers in the tables are very erratic), is that because I am using Advanced $0D TP5 v250.xdf for my truck and not the one for the Cadillac? For starters, do I need to copy all the tranny info from the V4P bin to mine as far as the 4L60E settings go?
    if its built right there will no need to modify anything but the shift points. a good shift kit and valve body modification will increase line pressure. according the the transmission guy that built mine, tuning for more on top of what the kit is doing for you could cause problems. I have harsh/fast shifts in all 4 gears with no tuning except the shift points.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  8. #8
    Electronic Ignition! Cadride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Iowa City, IA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14
    Thanks guys for the info. I have a lot of learning to do.

    Mark thanks for the mask file; definitely a lot different than the $OD mask. I have started a spread sheet listing the differences in the two masks for trans controls for curiosity purposes. I will do some playing around and let you know what I learn.

  9. #9
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Age
    57
    Posts
    10,477
    The trans cal of the Caddy V4P towing pakage is a sweet setup from factory. Really makes driving a B body more performance oriented. Would be nice in a truck, I think! But trucks are way better then a B body to begin with. So far 0 shift times have been a great improvement to a stock 4l60E trans in truck my old RoadMaster and my 98 Vortec Silverado, although this truck has had the best trans driving I have seen stock!

    Since the Caddy tow package bin is a 1994, I'm not sure how it would work in a 1995? 94 to 95 4l60E are differant as the 95 has a PWM TCC! There is also an extra wire on the harness from PCM to trans!

    There's also a way to run one wire to a switch for the Performance table to be used in B bodies. The switch only came in one car, the Trans Am I beleive.

    Right now I'm playing with TCC lock up times for the driving I do. Seems they want to kick in at speed limit and then I speed up... so I slow down and the TCC unlocks. Got it all dialed in and when Cruise Control is on they are differant? Look in the mask for a 1998 and there's another table for when in Cruise.

    Guess my point was there are so many differant tables you can screw things up! Once I had 1 of the 3 speedo scalers off in the LT1 $EE and the trans shifter 3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4 at 75 MPH and my tranny got hot before I noticed it! CEL for hot trans.

    Idea for a spreadsheet would be to enter values from all tables and change one so others change correctly. There is a Speedo Calculater in the $EE thread! OBDII TunerCat and EFI live have them built in and can have 600 changes for tire or gear change.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  10. #10
    Electronic Ignition! Cadride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Iowa City, IA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14
    My truck is a 94, but after comparing the tables between $0D and $EE I'm getting in way over my head. I was hoping that I could use just the info from the performance tables, but like you said what I don't know could kill my tranny.

    Did you put 0 for shift times in the "desired shift time vs TPS" mine is currently 1st 875, 2nd 1000, and 3rd 800 at WOT. I have read from different forums that changing line pressure or changing shift times can have the same affect. I would personally think the way you have gone changing the time would be the easiest on the drivetrain components. I changed the MPH that it shifts at under different conditions mostly for the gearing change that I made.

    Thanks for the prewarning on the TCC lock up at this point I don't plan to make changes there.

  11. #11
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Age
    57
    Posts
    10,477
    I looked in a bin for $0D and I beleive those settings should be .850 and IIRC I did end up at 0 or .100. Sneak up on them, cut in half and see how it feels. RInse and repeat.

    When I was plsying with shift times I did lots of data and tranny temps went down a little with short or 0 shift times compared to stock/sluuuuuuussssssshhhhhhhh

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  12. #12
    Carb and Points!
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    55
    Posts
    4
    In the thread title you mention 4L80E, and that is why I came in here, to find information about tuning for a 4L80E behind an LT1. However, it looks to me that most of the information is about tuning for a 4L60E. Am I missing something?

    I don't want to hijack your thread. Do you know if the 4L60E tables parameters are basically the same as what I would need for a 4L80E?

  13. #13
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Age
    57
    Posts
    10,477
    We are trying to get the tips and trick in one thread so good hijack! What are you looking to do? Although transmiossions are differant the paremeters to adjust are similar.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  14. #14
    Carb and Points!
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    55
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    We are trying to get the tips and trick in one thread so good hijack! What are you looking to do? Although transmiossions are differant the paremeters to adjust are similar.
    Sure, I'll explain it all here.

    I have been running a 4L80E with a PCS TCU-2000 behind an LT1 (still controlled by the stock PCM (16188051)), in an Impala SS. Conventional wisdom at that time was that an external TCU was the only option for controlling a 4L80E back when I installed the 4l80e. A lot has changed since then, and now I want to go back to the stock PCM for controlling the trans.

    I used Tunercat with the CE version of EEB.tdf to switch the solenoid settings in the constants table, and re-pinned the trans connector. It seems to work fine on a short drive around the block. However, I'm very concerned that I not make a mistake by using incorrect line pressure settings, as well as other key controlling tables, in order to avoid burning it up after a few blasts down the 1320. I have a friend that did the swap using TC and he burned up 2nd gear. After looking at his bin file, it looks like he bumped up the line pressure significantly. Might have been his undoing.

    Oh I just got a response from Bryan Herter, who said that he uses the same parameters for the 4L80E as he's been using with the 4L60E. So I guess I have my answer, unless you think otherwise?

    Thank you,
    Glen Koenig
    Last edited by Glen Koenig; 12-10-2012 at 02:30 PM. Reason: changed reason for using external controller

  15. #15
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Camden, MI
    Age
    28
    Posts
    3,021
    from a control standpoint, there isn't much difference between the 60 and 80, the biggest two things i can come up with are gear ratios differ a bit, so slip calculated would be off without correction, and that the 80 only uses a single TCC related solenoid (PWM) while the 60 uses a PWM and discrete solenoid.

    the 80 has the advantage of an input shaft speed sensor, so slip can be calculated better.

    the main calibration difference would be the table used for determining what duty cycle to run the PCS at based on desired pressure and trans temp.



    other than that, i can't think of much that would need changed. once the trans temp gets high enough, the line pressure is ran closed-loop to help prevent slippage, which is one of the advantages of a PCS equipped transmission.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


Similar Threads

  1. '71 Chev pick up 4L60E swap.
    By Six_Shooter in forum Gear Heads
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-12-2013, 07:28 PM
  2. 4L80E+decel lockup
    By gregs78cam in forum GM EFI Systems
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-04-2011, 08:29 PM
  3. Transmission ECMs
    By lwriddell in forum GM EFI Systems
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-05-2011, 01:44 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •