battery killer

[conwaymuddy]

Camaro is giving me fits. Its an 89 RS 305 tbi 700r4 car. Havent ran it for a while so i figured id warm it up yesterday. Put the fully charged optima red top in and it would crank over but wouldnt fire. Shot some starting fluid in and it wouldnt fire, then just dead. Looked under the hood and the negative cable was disconnected. It had melted the side terminal out of the battery. Googling told me a loose connection could cause arcing and melt it though i did snug it down with a wrench. Put another battery in today. Turned the key, starter engaged but didnt spin the motor, then everything went dead. Disconnected and reconnected the negative cable, tried starting again and the same thing. Ground from battery to motor/ body are clean, havent had a chance to check positive at the starter. Anybody have an idea why the starter would engage and kill the car? Its like you turn the key and go from good battery to no battery. Thanks for any input.

[conwaymuddy]

Tried to fire the car again today. First time the starter solenoid engaged then nothing. Battery connections were good but i disconnected the neg anyway. Hooked it back up had no power. Wiggled it a bit and had power. Car still wont fire with starting fluid. Assuming thats spark related but i dont know what the battery/power issue is. Anybody have any ideas?

[jim_in_dorris]

Step 1. get a voltmeter and measure battery voltage with everything hooked up. should be 12.4 VDC at minimum.
Step 2. pull starter and verify functionality with jumper cables. should engage and spin freely.
Step 3. replace cables from battery to starter and ground with new cables.
Step 4. verify that motor is not seized by turning crank with socket and breakover bar.

[EagleMark]

Load test Optima. They have gotten a bad rep last few years with many of them faulty!

[conwaymuddy]

Forgot i had this posted here. Thanks for the replies. Havent had much chance to work on this with the below 0 temps. The motor isnt seized and you can hear the starter working as it should. Checked for spark and didnt have any, also no sign of fuel from the injectors. Pulled the ignition control module thinking if its not getting spark its cutting power to the injectors, module tested good or so oreilly tells me. Is it possible its pulling spark because its not getting fuel? Its been so cold for so long im wondering if the fuel line may not be frozen. I can hear the pump come on in the tank. Ive been borrowing a neverstart battery from my d.d. and have only had the no power problem once. It seems like thats more or less making sure the cables are just right. Seems like the big rubber insulators on the cable ends like to make for bad connections.

[jim_in_dorris]

Okay, totally different problem from what your first post sounded like. My guess at this point is your distributor is not sending out pulses. That vintage Dist. has know problems with the internal reluctor wheel cracking. I would start with the diagnostic tree for the distributor.

[18436572]

I've had this problem before. Turns out that low voltage to the starter solenoid caused it to stick in the engaged position. Even with the key out of the ignition and the engine not turning over, the solenoid was is the engaged position and drawing whatever current the battery had left and heating up the weak point in the circuit. Usually the battery terminal.

[18436572]

The first problem (melted battery terminal) probably let the smoke out of a fusible link down on the starter.

[conwaymuddy]

The last time i poked around to check for spark and fuel the starter was still engaging and spinning the motor. Does the fusible link at the starter control anything other than the starter ( im not big on electrical stuff)? The two fusible links at the junction block by the battery look ok, no melting or burning. Poured some isopropal in the tank and got some fresh gas to add one we get back above 0°. Going to pick up a multi-meter tomorrow so i can check over the distributor. Figure ill clean up wiring connections while im in there as well.

[18436572]

Sometimes a fusible link can look ok but be bad. If it stretches like a rubber band it is bad. I know it is a silly question but did you check the ecm fuse?

[conwaymuddy]

Thanks for the tip with tbe fusible link, ill have to check them when i clean the connections. First thing i did was check the fuses, of course it couldnt have been something simple. Im still wondering if the ecm cut the spark from a lack of fuel. When i removed the gas cap to add the isopropal the other day i didnt get any sound like it had released pressure. Today i went to pour a little fresh gas in to try and mix it up and opening the cap i could hear the pressure vent. At -9° its still way to cold to work on this much.

[conwaymuddy]

Picked up a multi-meter today. Checked for continuity between the pick up coil and distributor, screen read O.L. measured the resistance of the pick up coil and best steady reading i could get was 5.XX M ohms. Spec says it should be 500-1500 ohms, since i know jack about electrical i dont know if im in spec or not. Going to check it again and see what i get.

Edit: Having a hard time getting a consistent reading, kind of all over from trying to get a decent connection and not having 3 hands. After a bit of looking around, for the pick-up to be in spec should it be somewhere between .5xx and 1.5xx mohms?

[EagleMark]

IIRC it should be 800 to 1300 OHMS. Then crank motor over and should show .2 to .7 volts. Have to play with your new DVOM and settings to get comfortable with it. 5.xx may be 500 OHMS depending on how it's set.

At this age these are all going bad. Look at the plug you removed from EST, is it really corroded with green crap? Look in top of distributor for cracks on pole pieces and magnet? If it's shot you will be needing a new distributor anyway...

You can get a new pickup coil for about $10. Have to remove distributor, pull gear and work the shaft out, in, out, in, out, twist in, twist out... with soaking in PB Blaster as it get's some oil buildup and does not want to come out to replace the coil. Coil is under a brass cover on top. Make sure new pick up coil comes with new clip to hold it down as it's almost impossible to get origanal off and re-use. Or drop in a new distributor but I always suggest a GM EST module. The rest of distributor of other then AC/Delco quality are usually fine.

When you get distributor apart and look at pick up coil it will probably be swollen, falling apart and green corrosion.

Use heat disapation paste under EST when re-mounting and rememeber the two screws are the grounds.

HTH!

[conwaymuddy]

Thanks Mark. Everything in the distributor looks ok, nothing rotted. The multi meter is auto ranging to 20Mohms, can just set it to Ohm test and go. it does have resolutions listed in the manual for ranges. Just an example 20.00Mohms has a resolution of 10Kohms. What is the correct goop to use under the ignition control mod? The manual just says silicone grease, dont want to fry new parts. Only bright side if i have to pull the whole thing is it should be easier to remove the snapped screw that holds the ignition control mod down.

Edit: manual tells me if i move the pick-up coil plug around and get variations in resistance the harness is damaged. I can get all sorts of values doing this....

[buddrow]

I had a similar issue in an old firebird. Wires coming off the pickup coil were both broken inside. Left me stranded at rush hour at the worse possible intersection on a nice 100+* day. Good news is it started back up after i pushed it through the intersection. ;)