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Thread: 12200411 - A Few General Questions

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    The setup with the 1x cam signal on the front cover isn't available yet so not much detail. The picture does show double row timing gear sprockets.

    You could use the LT1 kit for the double row timing chain. The water pump drive hole would have to be plugged.
    Is there a link that shows what you speak of?
    I don't need the 1x cam signal from the front cover, only the 4x crank signal.
    I see nothing on EFIConnection's site that shows a Gen I front cover with provision for a double row timing set, reluctor and CKP.
    The ONLY cover I've seen so far that accommodates all 3 items is the billet cover offered by TPiS for close to $300.
    Please provide a link so I can see what you are suggesting.
    Thanks!
    Elm

  2. #32
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezobens View Post
    Since I have never played with these PCMs before, I still have a lot to learn.
    I know that GM had 2K and 4K pulse VSS but what does that equate to in the table you provided above?
    Is that 2K or 4K per revolution or per KM or?
    Again, I apologize for the dumb question(s) but I do want to learn about all this stuff.
    Thank you for your patience!
    Elm
    40 pulses per drive shaft revolution for PCM's .... 2K / 4K for ECM's

    dave w

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    Below is screen shot of the EFI Live '0411 speedometer calibrations. ETC is Electronic Throttle Control. 8K pulses seems like a calibration challenge.

    dave w
    EFILive has very good speedometer parameters available. Pulse generators (2K/ 4K / 8K / 16K) are generally no problem to configure - you just need to think outside of the box a little.

    When you are actually ready - post your tune, tire size, gear ratio, and pulse generator type (i.e. 4K) and I will set it up for you.

  4. #34
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    Look at EFI Connections SBC page part way down.

    http://www.eficonnection.com/temp/24x_coming_soon.png

    EFI connection just sells 24X and 58X conversion stuff.

    The 96-97 LT1 had a 4X wheel and cover on it. Not sure how well it clears a double row chain.

    Why not just get a good single row chain?
    Last edited by lionelhutz; 12-06-2013 at 07:04 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    Look at EFI Connections SBC page part way down.

    http://www.eficonnection.com/temp/24x_coming_soon.png

    EFI connection just sells 24X and 58X conversion stuff.

    The 96-97 LT1 had a 4X wheel and cover on it. Not sure how well it clears a double row chain.

    Why not just get a good single row chain?
    Ahhh.. Yes, this looks very similar to the TPiS billet timing cover that costs $300 (for just the cover) with the added CMP sensor modification.
    EFIConnection's solution, while very slick, will most likely be very pricey.
    I can't justify the cost for convenience factor if I can engineer a solution that better addresses my specific application at a fraction of the cost.
    Just sayin'

    I plan on essentially doing the same thing (CMP sensor still in the distributor) with a cast aluminum marine cover with the 4x reluctor at a fraction of the cost.
    The 4x GM reluctor will clear a double roller chain if I put a spacer behind it (.150" or so from what I've read from others), which is simple enough to fabricate and also adding a sensor mount on the cover. I have a fairly expensive double row timing set that has less than 100 miles on it so pitching it and going back to a single is not an option.
    I don't mind spending the money where necessary but in this case, I'd rather spend a little R&D time and spend the money on things I can't create on my own.
    I appreciate the suggestions though and this is the kinda stuff I want to see and learn about-
    Some of these things I'll end up using, others I won't but it's all good information regardless.
    Thanks!
    Elm

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezobens View Post
    It looks like the VSS provision that Keisler has on their SS700 trans is for the Ford style analog VSS.
    I'm guessing that it will in NO way be compatible with the 12200411 PCM?
    If not, I will need to research my options for an in-line VSS with the stock cable-
    The problem is that the SS700 doesn't use the threaded GM style speedometer gear adapter (it's just a fitting with an o-ring that is held in place with a clamp like a distributor) so I may need to do some digging...
    Elm

    Post 18#, your covered

    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...delivered.html

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    EFILive has very good speedometer parameters available. Pulse generators (2K/ 4K / 8K / 16K) are generally no problem to configure - you just need to think outside of the box a little.

    When you are actually ready - post your tune, tire size, gear ratio, and pulse generator type (i.e. 4K) and I will set it up for you.
    Outstanding!
    I'll be taking you up on that.
    Thanks so much!
    Elm

  8. #38
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    May be some help, also offer 2/K adapter.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-92-TPI-Re...item565eb82fb9

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by roby View Post
    May be some help, also offer 2/K adapter.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-92-TPI-Re...item565eb82fb9
    This particular VSS won't work wit my Keisler SS700 because it uses a Ford style VSS housing (o-ring fitting vs threaded ).
    Thanks for looking!
    Elm

  10. #40
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    Ah, right forgot about your SS700 speedo drive.
    My GM mindset showing

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezobens View Post
    Ahhh.. Yes, this looks very similar to the TPiS billet timing cover that costs $300 (for just the cover) with the added CMP sensor modification.
    EFIConnection's solution, while very slick, will most likely be very pricey.
    I can't justify the cost for convenience factor if I can engineer a solution that better addresses my specific application at a fraction of the cost.
    Just sayin'


    Thanks!
    Elm
    TPIS actually makes the BILLET front timing covers that EFIConnection sells. $299 for a front timing cover.


    Over on Third Gen forums, the forums that deal with teh 82-92 Camaro/Firbirds. There is a guy named Craig Moates that owns Moates, the company that sells EFI tuninge quipement and the like. Look up his profile his username is "Craig Moates"and he describes how he machined up a spacer that allows double roller timing chains using teh stock plastic L31/30 (Vortec 350/305) timing cover along with a crank position relcutor and crank position sensor. I think you are correct in your 0.150" spec IIRC.

    peace
    Hog

  12. #42
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    Other Sensor Questions..

    OK, while I'm getting my CKP cover/mounting engineered, I have other sensor related questions:

    What type (make / part number) of heated O2 sensors would work best with the 12200411 on a TPI set-up?
    These things aren't cheap and I'd like to avoid the "trial and error" method of finding the proper ones.

    Also, is there a preference in MAF sensors? There are the traditional round housings with the mesh inserts and the latest ones are the 'Blade' type that seem much more compact and can potentially be mounted more easily. I'm looking at going with the 5-wire style that has the air temp sensor integrated with the MAF. Any pros/cons for either? Is there a performance or reliability different between the two?
    I'll be running a 71mm throttle body on the FIRST TPI intake if that makes a difference-

    Again, thanks to everyone taking the time to comment and offer suggestions and advice.
    Elm

  13. #43
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    If the online parts information is correct, the 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (Vin R) uses AC Delco part # AFS105 for the upstream (before catalytic converter) Heated O2 Sensors (HO2S). I would use the AFS105 HO2S for a TPI system controlled by the 12200411 PCM. I'm sure aftermarket brands can be cross referenced to the AFS105 part number. I'm sure the aftermarket HO2S are competitively priced compared to the AFS105 pricing. The 12200411 uses 4 HO2S 1 upstream, 1 downstream on each side of the engine to make a total of 4 HO2S. The two downstream HO2S can be eliminated with custom PCM Flash Programming.


    The MAF is optional with the 12200411 PCM, but custom Flash Programming is required. The 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (VIN R) used a 3 Wire MAF Sensor. The LS 5.3 liter MAF Sensor is 5 wire, a segment swap of the 5.3 liter MAF Parameters will need to be done for the 1200411 PCM Flash Programming.

    dave w

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    If the online parts information is correct, the 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (Vin R) uses AC Delco part # AFS105 for the upstream (before catalytic converter) Heated O2 Sensors (HO2S). I would use the AFS105 HO2S for a TPI system controlled by the 12200411 PCM. I'm sure aftermarket brands can be cross referenced to the AFS105 part number. I'm sure the aftermarket HO2S are competitively priced compared to the AFS105 pricing. The 12200411 uses 4 HO2S 1 upstream, 1 downstream on each side of the engine to make a total of 4 HO2S. The two downstream HO2S can be eliminated with custom PCM Flash Programming.


    The MAF is optional with the 12200411 PCM, but custom Flash Programming is required. The 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (VIN R) used a 3 Wire MAF Sensor. The LS 5.3 liter MAF Sensor is 5 wire, a segment swap of the 5.3 liter MAF Parameters will need to be done for the 1200411 PCM Flash Programming.

    dave w
    Thank you Dave!
    Seems there are quite a few vendors selling these O2 sensors and they are all around $30-$40 a pop. Are any brand(s) more desirable than the other? I'm thinking I should stay with Delco, Delphi, Denso, Bosch or ?? Any brands more reliable than the other?

    For the MAF, I won't be running the 3-wire as I'd rather have the air temp sensor with the MAF vs in the plenum of the intake. I'm trying to decide if the 85mm Corvette 5-wire MAF or the 'Blade' style 5-wire MAF is the better way to go? Again, my main concern is reliability and ease of installation. Are the Blade style more temperamental than the traditional round housing MAFs?

    Thanks again!
    Elm

  15. #45
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    With a 71mm throttle body a 85mm maf will not be your restriction. If by blade you the ls7 card style maf, they have a tendancy to drop out at low airflow in larger tubes making idle a challenge sometimes. If your installation is made easiar by the card style maf, just use a reasonable size intake tube and put it in straight section of the tube, not right after an elbow. Either will work fine.

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