12200411 - A Few General Questions

**ezobens** · 12-07-2013

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Look at EFI Connections SBC page part way down.

http://www.eficonnection.com/temp/24x_coming_soon.png

EFI connection just sells 24X and 58X conversion stuff.

The 96-97 LT1 had a 4X wheel and cover on it. Not sure how well it clears a double row chain.

Why not just get a good single row chain?

Ahhh.. Yes, this looks very similar to the TPiS billet timing cover that costs $300 (for just the cover) with the added CMP sensor modification.
EFIConnection's solution, while very slick, will most likely be very pricey.
I can't justify the cost for convenience factor if I can engineer a solution that better addresses my specific application at a fraction of the cost.
Just sayin'

I plan on essentially doing the same thing (CMP sensor still in the distributor) with a cast aluminum marine cover with the 4x reluctor at a fraction of the cost.
The 4x GM reluctor will clear a double roller chain if I put a spacer behind it (.150" or so from what I've read from others), which is simple enough to fabricate and also adding a sensor mount on the cover. I have a fairly expensive double row timing set that has less than 100 miles on it so pitching it and going back to a single is not an option.
I don't mind spending the money where necessary but in this case, I'd rather spend a little R&D time and spend the money on things I can't create on my own.
I appreciate the suggestions though and this is the kinda stuff I want to see and learn about-
Some of these things I'll end up using, others I won't but it's all good information regardless.
Thanks!
Elm

**Hog** · 12-09-2013

Originally Posted by ezobens

Ahhh.. Yes, this looks very similar to the TPiS billet timing cover that costs $300 (for just the cover) with the added CMP sensor modification.
EFIConnection's solution, while very slick, will most likely be very pricey.
I can't justify the cost for convenience factor if I can engineer a solution that better addresses my specific application at a fraction of the cost.
Just sayin'

Thanks!
Elm

TPIS actually makes the BILLET front timing covers that EFIConnection sells. $299 for a front timing cover.

Over on Third Gen forums, the forums that deal with teh 82-92 Camaro/Firbirds. There is a guy named Craig Moates that owns Moates, the company that sells EFI tuninge quipement and the like. Look up his profile his username is "Craig Moates"and he describes how he machined up a spacer that allows double roller timing chains using teh stock plastic L31/30 (Vortec 350/305) timing cover along with a crank position relcutor and crank position sensor. I think you are correct in your 0.150" spec IIRC.

peace
Hog

**ezobens** · 12-13-2013

OK, while I'm getting my CKP cover/mounting engineered, I have other sensor related questions:

What type (make / part number) of heated O2 sensors would work best with the 12200411 on a TPI set-up?
These things aren't cheap and I'd like to avoid the "trial and error" method of finding the proper ones.

Also, is there a preference in MAF sensors? There are the traditional round housings with the mesh inserts and the latest ones are the 'Blade' type that seem much more compact and can potentially be mounted more easily. I'm looking at going with the 5-wire style that has the air temp sensor integrated with the MAF. Any pros/cons for either? Is there a performance or reliability different between the two?
I'll be running a 71mm throttle body on the FIRST TPI intake if that makes a difference-

Again, thanks to everyone taking the time to comment and offer suggestions and advice.

Elm

**dave w** · 12-13-2013

If the online parts information is correct, the 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (Vin R) uses AC Delco part # AFS105 for the upstream (before catalytic converter) Heated O2 Sensors (HO2S). I would use the AFS105 HO2S for a TPI system controlled by the 12200411 PCM. I'm sure aftermarket brands can be cross referenced to the AFS105 part number. I'm sure the aftermarket HO2S are competitively priced compared to the AFS105 pricing. The 12200411 uses 4 HO2S 1 upstream, 1 downstream on each side of the engine to make a total of 4 HO2S. The two downstream HO2S can be eliminated with custom PCM Flash Programming.

The MAF is optional with the 12200411 PCM, but custom Flash Programming is required. The 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (VIN R) used a 3 Wire MAF Sensor. The LS 5.3 liter MAF Sensor is 5 wire, a segment swap of the 5.3 liter MAF Parameters will need to be done for the 1200411 PCM Flash Programming.

dave w

**ezobens** · 12-14-2013

Originally Posted by dave w

If the online parts information is correct, the 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (Vin R) uses AC Delco part # AFS105 for the upstream (before catalytic converter) Heated O2 Sensors (HO2S). I would use the AFS105 HO2S for a TPI system controlled by the 12200411 PCM. I'm sure aftermarket brands can be cross referenced to the AFS105 part number. I'm sure the aftermarket HO2S are competitively priced compared to the AFS105 pricing. The 12200411 uses 4 HO2S 1 upstream, 1 downstream on each side of the engine to make a total of 4 HO2S. The two downstream HO2S can be eliminated with custom PCM Flash Programming.

The MAF is optional with the 12200411 PCM, but custom Flash Programming is required. The 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (VIN R) used a 3 Wire MAF Sensor. The LS 5.3 liter MAF Sensor is 5 wire, a segment swap of the 5.3 liter MAF Parameters will need to be done for the 1200411 PCM Flash Programming.

dave w

Thank you Dave!
Seems there are quite a few vendors selling these O2 sensors and they are all around $30-$40 a pop. Are any brand(s) more desirable than the other? I'm thinking I should stay with Delco, Delphi, Denso, Bosch or ?? Any brands more reliable than the other?

For the MAF, I won't be running the 3-wire as I'd rather have the air temp sensor with the MAF vs in the plenum of the intake. I'm trying to decide if the 85mm Corvette 5-wire MAF or the 'Blade' style 5-wire MAF is the better way to go? Again, my main concern is reliability and ease of installation. Are the Blade style more temperamental than the traditional round housing MAFs?

Thanks again!
Elm

**mecanicman** · 12-14-2013

With a 71mm throttle body a 85mm maf will not be your restriction. If by blade you the ls7 card style maf, they have a tendancy to drop out at low airflow in larger tubes making idle a challenge sometimes. If your installation is made easiar by the card style maf, just use a reasonable size intake tube and put it in straight section of the tube, not right after an elbow. Either will work fine.

**dave w** · 12-14-2013

Originally Posted by ezobens

For the MAF, I won't be running the 3-wire as I'd rather have the air temp sensor with the MAF vs in the plenum of the intake. I'm trying to decide if the 85mm Corvette 5-wire MAF or the 'Blade' style 5-wire MAF is the better way to go? Again, my main concern is reliability and ease of installation. Are the Blade style more temperamental than the traditional round housing MAFs?

I would use the Corvette MAF. Make sure the correct MAF Grams vs. Frequency is programmed in the computer.

dave w