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Thread: Towing with T56

  1. #46
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Ok LOL

    It's hilarious how you project your own flaws on others LOL. You're the one who came in here and started name calling, don't you remember? I use a little sarcasm and tongue in cheek satire and it STRUCK A NERVE with you

    You're the one who chose that name for yourself, so why are you getting mad at me??

  2. #47
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    If you could count, you'd know that post 31 comes before 36.

    "talking shit are either as dumb as I think they are" isn't sarcasm or tongue in cheek satire.
    Last edited by lionelhutz; 03-12-2018 at 09:20 PM.

  3. #48
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    If I could count?!?! There you go projecting again lionel-hun! It looks like it is in fact YOU who cannot count! BWAAAAHH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Seriously, STOPIT! You got me rolling over here!!!!

    And.... You prove my point yet again.....


    "talking shit are either as dumb as I think they are" In this case you came in here talking shit, and the adjective I used to describe you was in fact quite fitting, as illustrated so wholesomely by your last post. But much like math, English and it's usage is ALSO clearly, not a strong suit of yours.

    The truth doesn't have to be nice, it just has to be TRUE. Thank-you for proving that, AGAIN. LMFAO!

    Satire requires the reader to be an active participant with sense enough to know that not everything is what it seems. And for the satirically handicapped (such as yourself) satire becomes a taxing, humiliating and downright offensive experience to the point that they (the satirically handicapped) lash out against the creator of said satire.

  4. #49
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    When I called you a piece of shit it was satirical....

    So, it must be you who's lashing out. LOL

  5. #50
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Okay now I just feel bad…………










    I didn’t realize you are that severely mentally handicapped.

  6. #51
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    cdeez, you need to just ignore this lionel thing.

  7. #52
    Fuel Injected! tamperedchevy's Avatar
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    and lionel.....what the hell are you doin? seriously?(both questions are rhetorical) 4yrs later? someone just wanted to talk about a transmission. stop..just stop.

  8. #53
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamperedchevy View Post
    cdeez, you need to just ignore this lionel thing.
    I'm not going to lie to you.......... I get a kick out of getting him so flustered.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamperedchevy View Post
    and lionel.....what the hell are you doin? seriously?(both questions are rhetorical) 4yrs later? someone just wanted to talk about a transmission. stop..just stop.

    Yep, I just thought it was pretty cool that a trans that has had the shit beaten out of it and otherwise abused as long as I have owned it finally had to come apart because of a broken slider key. I'm sure the previous owner(s) were no nicer to it than I was. A transmission that has been in service for 23 years owes nobody anything as far as I'm concerned. I planned on running it till something forced me to take it out and apart. Aside from the broken slider key the only other thing wrong with it was the splines on the mainshaft where 5/6 gear rides are about halfway gone, another common problem with higher mileage units that were probably originally LT1 boxes.

    He got really hung up on that bearing a couple days ago. Not my fault he took the bait again. It was pretty hilarious though. It was in fact stained like I said. I soaked it in MEK for several hours and it wiped off. No matter anyways, that F-body unit is so high mileage now I have set it aside to be faceplated when I go through it and build it up for my Chevy II. To replace it I have built a "new" unit by using Corvette internals for the triple double cone synchros and the SSR mainshaft plus all the usual upgrades, solid keys, bronze fork pads, steel 3/4 fork. Also added a -6AN fitting for a pump. I haven't decided how I want to control the pump. The easy thing would be to put it on a switch or wire it into hot on key on source. I had an idea that I could use a hobbs switch to make it come on. Or possibly incorporate an Arduino board to kicK the pump on at a cetain TPS % like say 50% TPS. Another idea, is to have it come on at a certain boost level. Currently running 8 pound springs in the wastegates on my setup.

  9. #54
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    Gentlemen....

    I'm disappointed in what this thread has become. Disagreement is fine but this is over the top.

    CDeeZ, success stories are always good. I've proven the internet wrong myself a few times and I know how tough the crowd can be when trying to tell them that "Everyone" was wrong. When it gets bad you can walk away or ignore the ones you don't want to hear. There's no need to go to where you are now.

    lionelhutz, asking valid questions is fine. But recognizing when someone has an emotional stake in their conclusions is even more important. All the readers lose while you are trying to win a fight like this.

    This flame war has gone on far too long. Please end it now.

  10. #55
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    For me, forums are for two principle reasons. To help others learn when and where I can, and to learn myself.

    Years ago, me and a handful of other guys were some of the first, if not THE first to be putting T56s in big heavy fullsize trucks. If anyone else was doing it, we certainly were not aware of it. So we were plowing new ground. There was a swap thread first on FSC where I was one of these first few guys to do this T56 swap. Others that come to mind are Alocious, MrPlow,Project88. I think that post is long gone but Alocious reposted it on his website here. Some of the pics are mine:

    http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/t56.html


    Buying a car with a 6 speed already in it is easy. But to take a bunch of disparate parts and figure out how to make it work, and more importantly how to make it last (in a big heavy truck) is a whole nother level of challenges.

    Hard data and numbers are great when available. But sometimes a person's expertise and experience is the better guiding factor. An analogy could be you think you're trying to hit stoich for idle, you know that according to theory, data, and numbers you want to hit 14.7 AFR. However, for whatever reason you might find that a different AFR gives better results. So you end up deviating from what pure raw data and numbers might tell you to do. A hypothetical assumption perhaps?

    I figured out that this trans is probably more like 24 years old, not that it matters much between 23 and 24. But the shifter offset lever and the skipshift lever are seperate pieces on this unit which I believe dates this box to ~94. They became one piece around 95 sometime AFAIK.

    These are the facts:

    A T56 was in service for 24 years before a broken slider key brought it down.

    There was no catastrophic failure or any indication that one was imminent, rather, a high mileage unit that could easily be brought back to new by addressing the typical T56 problem areas AND, the things that need dealt with in such a high mileage box like I mentioned.

    I am almost done putting together it's replacement, a T56 hybrid I'm building which is utilizing a 50,000 mile Corvette T56 donor for internals, an F body front plate, SSR 32 spline mainshaft and a fluid pump etc. etc.

    I will be finished with this newest T56 I'm building soon, and I can't wait to get back to rowing gears, hearing that BOV open up every time I shift, spinning all the way through 4th on demand, and having a blast doing some more stoplight and freeway boost trolling.

  11. #56
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    Bearing staining is the first stage indicator of an overheated bearing. It doesn't just happen for no reason. This is not my personal opinion, this fact comes directly from the experts at the bearing manufacturing companies. All good bearing manufacturers publish this fact in their failure analysis documents. They will also highly recommend investigating the issue and not just putting the bearing back into service. You can wash it off and re-use it, but you're just putting a bearing that has been taken to the edge of permanent failure back into service without figuring out why it almost failed.

  12. #57
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    I know what you mean lionel. All I was trying to say is that based upon my experience, I would make a personal judgment call saying "hey this bearing is certainly not brand new any more, but I wouldn't hesitate to keep it in service longer". Tapered roller bearings are pretty damn tough from my experience with them.

    It doesn't matter though because that box is shelved for future use in another project. Maybe I will replace the bearings then who knows? Honestly, I probably won't though. I'm not afraid to run it till it breaks because I have the tools, knowledge and skill to fix it when it does. I typically run things as far as I possibly can no matter what anyways. One of my daily beaters is a 97 F150. It's been a great truck. But with literally 350,000 miles on it, it sounds like a metal coffee can full of drywall screws when you start it up on a cold morning. I'll be surprised if it doesn't make it to 500,000 miles!!! My personal "secret" if you will?? I make my own "blend" of oil by using mostly 15w40 diesel oil with a splash of ZDDP additive. OVerkill??? Probably so. But why the hell not?!?

    I found this from Timken:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVuReXrZ8Mg

    Pretty cool. Maybe to you, that bearing looked worse than it was, but like I said, In my opinion, and from my experience it was not something I would even worry about. It didn't look like any of the bearings shown in that video. That's for sure!

    Like I said though it's irrelevant because for this hybrid T56 I'm building I just dropped in the entire internals from a NON Z06 T56 for the triple/double synchros. It was just easier than way. Plus, that trans only had about ~50K miles on it so that was another reason I chose to do it that way.

    I don't want to surround myself with "yes" people and those who think exactly like me. How fucking boring would that be? I respect your difference of opinion/judgement call/perception whatever you want to call it. Please respect mine. We're all on the same team here. Should be anyways. I know what you're saying though. What I've been trying to say for a while though is something like this....... My style is a lot like sloppy mechanics.... If you don't know about this, please google it. His motto is "I'm giving hot rodding back to the people"

    For anyone who might not be familiar with sloppy mechanics just check these videos out:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7HRwRTVX_Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWT4JMw2hS8

    This ^^^ I love. I spent so much time reading and reading while I was piecing together my S475 LQ4 setup that lives in front of this T56. I copied as much shit from the internet and sloppy as I could because there is really no need to reinvent the wheel. It has paid off. That truck is the fastest car I've ever owned/driven. When I push the pedal down far enough it spins, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, doesn't matter it just spins. It consistently points the nose towards the ditch on the right hand side. It was enough to make me shit my pants the first time I really uncorked it. But that's my style man, do what you can with what you have, even if it means reusing rusty junk. Most people around here see this truck and probably think "oh look at this shitty farm truck". That really isn't far from the truth, but when I smoke their ass in a clapped out truck with the aerodynamics of a barn door it makes me giggle like a little fucking girl. I haven't found anything on the street that has beat me but I'm sure I will. Or maybe not? It depends on how much I crank up the boost and whether I decide to keep the tires on there that spin because it's fun sliding all over the place or switch to something that will actually hook up. A couple of the local street rats challenged me to a race. I said Sure! Let's race up the twistys to Hennessey and back! (Town north of here). That shuts them right down! They can think for '1320 feet and then that's it brain shuts off.... Those cars would kill me in a drag race. But I would absolutely dominate on a long range bombing run, and be more comfortable with double overdrive, power windows and locks, plush interior and sound deadening, sound system, CUP HOLDERS LOL you get the idea. Everybody around me is stuck in the past in a lot of ways: carbureted big blocks, powerglides, way fucking loose converters etc. etc. That stuff is all cool don't get me wrong, but not many around my part of the world have embraced the advantage(headache) that is EFI and LSx.


    Lionel: The factory (Tremec) endplay specs for the T56 is .000" to .002" endplay on the mainshaft, .000" to .002" preload on the countershaft, and .000" to .002" endplay on the countershaft extension.

    I have set the main and counter BOTH to a preload of .002" this go around. I will likely do the same for the countershaft extension. To me it makes more sense to preload them to account for the case expansion. And being a tapered roller bearing preload is a good thing IMO. Endplay is not. I set that OTHER T56 up to Tremec specs when I converted it from LTx to LSx. I'm going to experiment with a slight preload all the way around this time. Many guys on LS1tech talk about doing preload on ALL of them.
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    Last edited by CDeeZ; 03-18-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  13. #58
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    All good bearing manufacturers publish this fact in their failure analysis documents.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDeeZ View Post
    The factory (Tremec) endplay specs for the T56 is .000" to .002" endplay on the mainshaft, .000" to .002" preload on the countershaft, and .000" to .002" endplay on the countershaft extension.


    And this is to both of those statements listed above..... And?????? So what???????? Don't take this personal and go ape shit again I'm just saying. I do what works for me. I don't care much about what is written down somewhere or stated. I will investigate it, consider, and ultimately it is still MY decision to make. So what's wrong with having some autonomy in the matter and doing something independent of what is stated or published by someone else? ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE RHETORICAL. Don't freak out.

  14. #59
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    I found this and thought it an interesting read.

    It is a failure analysis from SKF. These are excerpts from the "Limits of acceptability"

    Abrasive wear:
    "Wear that results in a mirror finish on the bearing components might be acceptable. However, further clean conditions are needed. When wear causes ridges that can be felt with a fingernail or other blunt probes in the running surfaces of the bearing, the bearing should be scrapped."

    Corrosion:
    "Bearing components with corrosion damage that can be felt with a finger nail should be scrapped. A stain on the surface of the bearing components might be acceptable if it can be removed by polishing with fine abrasive paper."

    Vibration corrosion:
    " If the damage to the surfaces can be felt with a fingernail, then the bearing should be scrapped. Light vibration markings on the bearing surface might be acceptable if they can be polished away with abrasive paper and/or cannot be felt by a fingernail."

    Indentation from debris:
    "Over rolled indentation damage is not acceptable if widespread throughout the bearing as shown in the photo. It might be acceptable if only slightly damaged and not present across the entire raceway."

    Discoloration:
    "Lubrication stains might be acceptable if no other damage is present. Blue discolouration caused by heat is not acceptable on any bearing component."


    I think this is interesting. I have never looked into any of this before but I have always used my fingernail to see if it catches on bushings, bearing races etc. as a determinant of whether the part in question needed to be replaced or not. It seems that SKF is reliant on the user of a bearing being smart and independent enough to be able to make a judgement call in the field. This was my approach. The bearing staining that I have witnessed in that other T56 from the pictures had a rusty brown/dark red discoloration. Which, according to this SKF failure analysis document, is "acceptable" provided no other damage is apparent.
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    Last edited by CDeeZ; 03-19-2018 at 03:17 PM.

  15. #60
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    SKF really only says it might be OK, which is likely why you quoted acceptable. If you read what I posted, I said the bearing has staining which is the first stage indicating it has experienced overheating and also that means it was taken close to having permanent damage. If it was overheating, then when the overheating continued it would have advanced beyond the first stage. It might be still be Ok, or it might not. If it was a big bearing for a critical application that cost a good chunk of cash then a much closer inspection would be called for. On a cheap bearing, it makes sense simply to replace it and not take the chance on it. It's easy to determine when a bearing is definitely bad, but not always so easy on a worn one that has bad indicator signs but still doesn't show failure damage.
    Last edited by lionelhutz; 03-19-2018 at 05:42 PM.

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