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Thread: Can an 0411 operate a 1993 4L60E?

  1. #1
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Can an 0411 operate a 1993 4L60E?

    I've been wondering if an '0411 PCM can operate a 1993 4L60E? It's my understanding that the 1993 4L60E is a non-PWM TCC. I've been thinking maybe with the OS used for the Express Van 5.7 liter might have the transmission segment I can use?

    dave w

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    perhaps i'm used to the 6 cylinder F-bodies, but i thought 93 was still just the 4L60, not an E? not familiar with the truck applications of the era though.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


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    Fuel Injected! brian617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertISaar View Post
    perhaps i'm used to the 6 cylinder F-bodies, but i thought 93 was still just the 4L60, not an E? not familiar with the truck applications of the era though.
    93 Model trucks could have either version.
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    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertISaar View Post
    perhaps i'm used to the 6 cylinder F-bodies, but i thought 93 was still just the 4L60, not an E? not familiar with the truck applications of the era though.
    Currently, the transmission is being controlled by a 16168625 PCM (red / blue) connectors with definition $E6. I've been thinking about converting the SBC to a LS 5.3 Liter. Maybe the original PCM can be tricked into controlling the 4L60E and use the '0411 for engine only?

    dave w

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    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    I think it's easier then that Dave. TCC just get's turned on, not PWM turned on. Change {D2903} and {D2904} to both 100%. Would probably do the trick with the regular solinoid in the truck? Since the signal would be 100% I don't think the PWM solinoid would be needed?

    In the trucks the PWM TCC was started in 1995.

    None of the '93 -'97 4L60E's are directly interchangeable, except '93 and '94!!! Here's a list of yearly differences that will show you why. Yes, some years will fit in others and may not even throw a code, but there will be an issue in the long run. The big issues become forced 3-2 downshifts, and converter lock up issues and burnt lock up clutches. When a converter cluych cause it to lose lock up, the 3-4 clutches, in the transmission will soon follow because the 3-4's need lock up to keep them cool while cruising in overdrive.

    1993: These were used in trucks only. Not available in F-Bodies, B-Bodies, or Vettes

    1994: Interchangeable with '93 4L60E with no modifications. The '93-'94 is a NON PWM transmission. This means that the lock up apply strategy is an on /off arrangement. It has an 11 pin case connector. Does not have PWM cast into front pump. 1 piece TCC control valve in the valve body. Plate has holes in plate, marked in diagram below. 1st design 3-2 valve

    1995: Stand alone year! Will not interchange with any other year. This is a PWM transmission. An extra solenoid was added to the valve body to control the pulsed lock up strategy of the conerter clutch. It has a 12 pin case connector, extra wire in the transmission to computer harness and different computer to control the new PWM circuit. Has PWM cast in front pump. Front pump internal passages different to match new TCC strategy. 2 piece TCC control valve in valve body. Has holes in plate, marked in diagram below. 1st design 3-2 valve. 12 pin case connector. '94 computer won't recognise new TCC strategy., and will burn lock-up clutch and 3-4 clutches up. '96 computer isn't compatible with '96 3-2 control solenoid.
    http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=269586

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    I think Mark is right, set the computer to 100% and it should work as on-off. You would have to turn off the code for the PWM solenoid failure. You also may need to connect a power resistor where the PWM solenoid is to trick the computer into thinking it's there.

    Just an FYI - I had a LT1 with a 95 transmission I swapped into another car and the harness I put together was missing the TCC pwm wire. It still shifted and even tried to lock the converter. It did not immediately go into limp mode. This wasn't a 0411 computer but the 0411 shouldn't go into limp mode either for a TCC problem.

    The guys at ImpalaSS forum freaking on that posted to change the whole harness to swap the 94 transmission and computer into a 95 is over the top. The one extra PWM wire in his harness won't have any effect on the swap.

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    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    The guys at ImpalaSS forum freaking on that posted to change the whole harness to swap the 94 transmission and computer into a 95 is over the top. The one extra PWM wire in his harness won't have any effect on the swap.
    I couldn't understand the issue with one wire? Swap a whole harness may be easier for parts replacers?

    Of course there is an issue of re-flashing the PCM with proper 94 non PWM TCC calibration or 95 PWM TCC calibration as they are different as well.

    I run into that a lot with the 94-95 TBI trucks

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    Ya, he posted engine, transmission and PCM being swapped, which would take care of any mis-match.

    I'm still pretty sure worst case a resistor to simulate the solenoid would make it work.

    When did the input shaft speed sensors that show up on the 4L65e and later transmissions start to get used and would it be an issue?

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    ????
    Last edited by TINBENDER59; 11-28-2013 at 06:01 PM.

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    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post

    When did the input shaft speed sensors that show up on the 4L65e and later transmissions start to get used and would it be an issue?
    I think 2006 was some electronics changes?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
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    None of the '93 -'97 4L60E's are directly interchangeable, except '93 and '94!!! Here's a list of yearly differences that will show you why. Yes, some years will fit in others and may not even throw a code, but there will be an issue in the long run. The big issues become forced 3-2 downshifts, and converter lock up issues and burnt lock up clutches. When a converter cluych cause it to lose lock up, the 3-4 clutches, in the transmission will soon follow because the 3-4's need lock up to keep them cool while cruising in overdrive.

    1993: These were used in trucks only. Not available in F-Bodies, B-Bodies, or Vettes

    1994: Interchangeable with '93 4L60E with no modifications. The '93-'94 is a NON PWM transmission. This means that the lock up apply strategy is an on /off arrangement. It has an 11 pin case connector. Does not have PWM cast into front pump. 1 piece TCC control valve in the valve body. Plate has holes in plate, marked in diagram below. 1st design 3-2 valve

    1995: Stand alone year! Will not interchange with any other year. This is a PWM transmission. An extra solenoid was added to the valve body to control the pulsed lock up strategy of the conerter clutch. It has a 12 pin case connector, extra wire in the transmission to computer harness and different computer to control the new PWM circuit. Has PWM cast in front pump. Front pump internal passages different to match new TCC strategy. 2 piece TCC control valve in valve body. Has holes in plate, marked in diagram below. 1st design 3-2 valve. 12 pin case connector. '94 computer won't recognise new TCC strategy., and will burn lock-up clutch and 3-4 clutches up. '96 computer isn't compatible with '96 3-2 control solenoid.


    I've a question re running a 93 4L60E with a 411 but am unclear of some of the info.

    First Question - the info above says the 93 is a 11 PIN, and the 95 in a 12 PIN. Is that correct (isn't the 93 also a 12 PIN)?

    2nd question - some of the info I've been able to dig, the PIN for the 4L60E and 4L65E's have 13 PINs. Am guessing the 13th PIN is the TCC PWM Soleniod Valve Control.

    If using a 411 for a 93, what needs to be done as the 93 would not have the TCC PWM?

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    The connector is the same, just the number of populated pins change. The later PWM TCC tranmissions added another populated pin for the PWM solenoid.

    I would think you program the PCM to 100% in all the PWM tables and then turn-off the PWM solenoid code. If it still doesn't work then connect a power resistor to the PCM to simulate the PWM solenoid resistance.

    Dave asked so hopefully he actually did it and knows for sure.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    Dave asked so hopefully he actually did it and knows for sure.
    I did not go forward with the project that I was wanting to use the '0411 controlled 93 4L60E. The project was to run an aftermarket MPFI system with an '0411 on a SBC mated to a 4L60E.

    dave w

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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    The connector is the same, just the number of populated pins change. The later PWM TCC tranmissions added another populated pin for the PWM solenoid.

    I would think you program the PCM to 100% in all the PWM tables and then turn-off the PWM solenoid code. If it still doesn't work then connect a power resistor to the PCM to simulate the PWM solenoid resistance.

    Dave asked so hopefully he actually did it and knows for sure.
    I'm ok with medium level electrical wiring, but have limited experience with electronics.

    What resistor (spec and type) should be used, and how should it be wired?

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    I don't know the resistance of the PWM solenoid. But, you basically buy a 5 watt resistor with the resistance close to the solenoid resistance and wire it where the solenoid would connect.

    But try it first without to see what happens.

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