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Thread: Opinions needed!

  1. #1
    Fuel Injected!
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    Opinions needed!

    I have a 405 Chevrolet small block. Wanting to NOT CARB IT!!!

    My first thought was pull a vortec ecu, sensors etc, and retrofit it all to the engine.
    I can do most machining myself.

    I want to throw the poppets in the trash. Use port injectors in my manifold.

    Any suggestions there?

    Also toying with 88-95 TBI possibility, quite a bit easier to accomplish for sure.

    Any input on efi vs?
    Shouldn't either one control spark?
    btw, is the reluctor for crank sensor (vortec) able to be installed on older cranks?

    Engine- 400sbc .020 over, dish pistons 63.4 cc heads right at 10:1 compression 5.7 rods probably use a 270 comp roller cam or 264/270 comp roller. Idle-5500 and the factory 5800 rev limit won't bother me a bit. You know, a TRUCK motor....
    Last edited by 405cubes; 10-15-2013 at 03:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Fuel Injected! Lextech's Avatar
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    There are a LOT of very smart TBI guys on here. I am not one of them. I would recommend the LS1b PCM and 8 injectors. You could get a used harness and rework it. Check e-Bay for a 2001-2002 V6 S10 harness. You can get that harness with the 12200411 PCM for around $150.00. You will need to get a CKP sensor and a 4x crank reluctor from a Vortec V8 and the Vortec timing cover. Your balancer will need to be shortened the same amount as the thickness of the reluctor. EFIConnection makes a new metal adapter that allows the plastic Vortec timing cover fit and seal nicely on non Vortec blocks. You will need a Vortec distributor as it houses the CMP sensor. You will need the ICM (Ignition Control Module) or if you want to go CNP you will need the EFIConnection 24x reluctor and 8 LS engine coils.

    Jeff
    98 GMC RCSB, 5.0, 4L80e, Moser M60, 4.10 gear, Homemade twin turbo w/Junkyard T3 turbos, 24x CNP, 12200411 PCM.

  3. #3
    Fuel Injected!
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    Right up the alley what I was thinking. And I'll look into those parts this evening...

    Ideally, mpfi is the goal-but TbI might work if it's significantly cheaper/easier to tune.

    Does the fact I'm adding 55 cubes to(350) or subtracting 50 cubes(454) present any special dilemma?

    So, given the TbI vs mpfi -
    If throttle body is used, am I better of borrowing it from a 454 or 350? Possibly the bigger 454 main body and a smaller injector?

    Mpfi-can anyone here tackle the setup? Tune it to good streetability? If so-what mix of parts?

  4. #4
    Fuel Injected! jim_in_dorris's Avatar
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    405, I think that you will need to work out your budget, MPFI parts and a 411 ECM are a little more expensive than TBI, but where the cost will come in is the tuning. If you are going to be doing a lot of tuning, then Lextech's suggestions are the way to go. His skill with LS1's and 411 ECM's is tremendous. If this is more of a one time deal, then TBI tuning software is probably your better bet as it is much less expensive. If I had a large budget I would go 411, or if I knew I would be tuning a lot of vehicles, I would go 411, it has a lot of potential. That being said, TBI tuning is going to give you a very streetable vehicle with a turbo400 behind your 504 caddy. Another alternative is MPFI with a camaro TPI computer, lots of code work has been done on those, with the benefits of the lowcost of tuning them. I look forward the seeing what your choices end up being, my son and I are building a 52 chevy PU that will be MPFI, and I am considering the 411 ecm for it, but that is a ways down the road yet as we are still in the frame and bodywork stage (just beginning).
    Square body stepsides forever!!!

  5. #5
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 405cubes View Post
    If throttle body is used, am I better of borrowing it from a 454 or 350? Possibly the bigger 454 main body and a smaller injector?

    Mpfi-can anyone here tackle the setup? Tune it to good streetability? If so-what mix of parts?
    May as well start with the 454 TBI and injectors. Then airflow and fuel will not be an issue, you can tune down to much fuel but you can't tune in fuel that is not there!

    MPFI in OBDI choice of ECM would be 7727 or 7730 $8D mask. OBDII would be the 0411. If your not going to do the tuning I can handle that end in MPFI or TBI. Just need to figure your final plans, parts and pieces to make sure they work well together.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  6. #6
    Fuel Injected!
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    Eaglemark-good to know. Now to figure obd1 or 2- ease of install vs performance divided by budget.

    As far as I can tell, the main injector is low impedance and the poppers are high-and newer vortecs run on high impedance.
    So are there actually 9 injectors there to the ecu? Interesting if so. I'm thinking the big boy low impedance turned off for now, and leave as a possible water/methanol source later!! Lol, obviously not in the budget now.

    eagle-you have capability to get me going whether I go ecu or vortec then?

  7. #7
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Well you keep mentioning Vortec so that may be the confusing end. Even though the new LSx motros say Vortec on them, we consider that a 0411 PCM. Vortec motors were in the 96 to 2000 range (along with LS) and had 3 different PCMs, none of which would be recommended to start with for a conversion.

    As far as expense the OBDI systems are going to be a little cheaper as you don't need to add a trigger wheel to the crank for OBDII. Since you do machining then we can rule this out. This is really the only concern for ease of installation as well. If your going to buy tuning equipment and learn then OBDI is still cheaper then the OBDII software and cables. If your just going to have it tuned then either will cost about the same.

    So at this point it kind of depends what you decide your budget is? MPFI is going to be more cost and bang for buck.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  8. #8
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    my choice would be MPFI and 1227165 ecu just for ease and simple to tune as well as being able to tweak it realtime without uploading whole bins over and over to get it right .1 bad flash and you start pulling hair out.
    ive never been a proponant of TBI as it still wets the manifold like a carb LOL
    ide be looking for a TPI manifold or if after all the power you can get build your combo around your favourite carb manifold to suit your combo and add injector ports and a 4 bbl TB like such

  9. #9
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Now there's a MPFI intake setup!

    Over here in US we would probably never choose the 1227165 ecu, but with the COOL stuff you guys have made it is an outstanding option!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  10. #10
    Fuel Injected!
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    the joys of that above is it still looks oldschool with a filter on it apart from the 2 fuel rails.you think thats cool you should see the twin tunnelram versions :D

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    The '7165 is slowly becoming my go to ECM, because of the $12P code. :D
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  12. #12
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    even a decient cam doesnt scare the delco 1227165 LOL

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by delcowizzid View Post
    even a decient cam doesnt scare the delco 1227165 LOL
    Doesn't scare a 7427, 7730 or 0411 either.

    The 0411 did not mind a 110* LSA cam even untuned it idled and drove seamlessly after it learned a little.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbIKimA_0i4
    Last edited by Fast355; 10-17-2013 at 06:43 PM.

  14. #14
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    @delco - that is just wicked! What fuel rails did u use?

  15. #15
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    that manifold is a pic off thirdgen.org LOL.you should be able to use tpi rails but you can buy fuel rail extrusion cheap if needed ive bought it as low as $12 a foot from china LOL.or if you have the money all these setups can just be bought off the shelf

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