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Thread: S10 Vortec 5.7L build in hex

  1. #1
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    S10 Vortec 5.7L build in hex

    I am helping a guy out with a 2002 OS. People have to stop all of this segment swap crap.

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    Segment swap seems to work and get the job done. But I read your other thread and can see why things could be done better in hex because of tuning software limitations of OS, even though a tranny segment is same length, maybe just moved a couple line so POOF, that's it, tuning software is out!. I can use hex enough to do things like this but the biggest obstacle for all is not all hex is defined so it's get's hard for us that don't have exact definitions or enough knowledge to separate the code.

    So please! Do go on! I'm not totally against a separate forum or sub forum for hex and code. If you put together enough articles we can surely either make one or at least a Hex sticky with links to all your articles. It may bring up enough intrest that people start asking specific questions as well? We've had a few long threads to learn and guys have shared a lot. Things can change when there's enough interest and information to consolidate. It's like to Ford forum, we have a Ford Moderator, it's still here and I'm not sure why as we've never gained enough interest there so other sites have that covered.

    Cars are my thing! Was never even interested in computers till I found the internet was full of car info... 1998. Then cars have computers and still wasn't interested till I found I could change the way they run... 2004. It's all been a journey of more computer knowledge, ECM/PCM knowledge, then into the hex knowledge. My end goal, intrests and enjoyment is still cars! So the entire 15 year journey is just another tool for the end goal of cars!

    There's got to be a good free software hex editor we could all use and become familiar with as well. TunerPro Hex editor is a big help when using in the program but very limited when it comes hex editing or combining files. NotePad++ has a hex editor plugin I've found useful but still probably not the tool we need?

    Then some others are so complicated for us tuner, GearHead type and more in line for experianced programmers.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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    i don't work in raw hex very often(except for writing/applying patches, which is all done in tunerpro), when i do, i found a program titled XVI32. has a neat function in it that allows for essentially macros to be performed. like chopping out the first 1KB of a file, click 4 or 5 times and you're done. useful for popping apart switched banks in the calibrations that use them as well.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caleditor View Post
    I am helping a guy out with a 2002 OS. People have to stop all of this segment swap crap.
    Interesting post. A general statement, without preamble, explanation of viewpoint, or description of applicable issues.

    Segment swaps are a just one tool in the overall toolbox of modifying a calibration to arrive at (or get a little closer to) the needs of the end user. Sometimes these are an effective end in themselves, other times they get you two steps closer and one step back - as the cliche goes.

    Some examples ....

    A popular segment swap for 1999 to 2002 Gen III 4L60 trucks is the transmission segments from a Camaro calibration - to facilitate keeping the TC locked on deceleration at 0% TPS. With a 2WD truck there is no perceivable downside to this technique. Problems may arise with 4WD trucks - as this process can have the unwanted side effect of disabling some of the 4WD components of the calibration. Not a problem to enable these again - as long is the user is aware of this.

    If you have a Gen IV truck ECM calibration, and you wish to use a manual transmission, swapping the system segment from a manual transmission equipped Corvette calibration seems like a reasonable option - but this will only get you part of the way to your end goal. The engine won't rev beyond 4000 RPM as the requisite torque limits are not addressed. Also the speedometer won't work. A positive side benefit is that alternator will now activate immediately, rather than being delayed for two minutes. Again, it is not a problem to address these issues - as long as the user is aware of them.

    Working directly in the raw calibration via manipulating the hexadecimal values is a course of action best left to very advanced users - and even then can still lead to catastrophe. If the hex parameter of interest represents a "state", like enabled / disabled, or option 1, 2, 3, etc. working in hex is more straight forward. If the hex parameter of interest represents a numeric value (like temperature) things may start to get confusing. Rarely are these represented in a direct linear fashion - most often these are subject to magnitudes (are multiplied by a factor), and may also feature the application of an offset value.

    I only work in hex to develop the requisite parameters within the tuning software platform being used - I then make all changes to the calibration via the tuning software. This way I don't have to recall (and correctly apply) factors and offsets, and I don't need to remember which of these are for metric values and which are for imperial values. I only need to know / trust that I got it right when I originally mapped out the OS being used.

    This works for me ... but may not suit everyone ... as we all conceptualize things in a uniquely individual way.

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    I was hoping to post a file and some details today, but I got "stuck"
    I watched season 4 of breaking bad instead

    It takes 2 PC's running to do the job correctly. I have twin monitors on one of them

    If you do a trans swap a segment swap could be in order. It doesn't always work. I have a method of segment swapping that works 100% of the time. I hope to be able to post it

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caleditor View Post
    I was hoping to post a file and some details today, but I got "stuck"
    I watched season 4 of breaking bad instead

    It takes 2 PC's running to do the job correctly. I have twin monitors on one of them

    If you do a trans swap a segment swap could be in order. It doesn't always work. I have a method of segment swapping that works 100% of the time. I hope to be able to post it
    I look forwared to seeing this method. I have been struggling to figure this out on my own and have yet to complete a successfully segement swap.

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    I had a hard time getting this correct. I had a lot on my mind this last week. I screwed it up I bet 10 times, before I got it right.

    I will try to explain all of the changes later
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Hey...this looks familiar!

    its Randy BTW

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    Randy lets get the true rear O2 delete fix posted when we get that figured out.

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    I was wondering if you guys could help me do a segment swap on a 02 411 P01 Camaro PCM 1271002. I need to switch the speedo output to serial class 2. To work with a 2004 Colorado. Ideally it would be a fuel segment, and speedo segment swap. From what I can tell 2003 S10, and express van, or 2004 trailblazers, also receive speedo via class 2. (they also have a separate speed signal sent to the PCM, but it seems to work without it on the 06 trailblazer/SSR to 04 Colorado swap I did). I don't know of a compatible P01 segment with OS ID the same as 1271002, or I could have Hp tuners do it for me, or the guy that owns the truck.

    How do I save a Hp tuner file as a bin? Is there a good hex editor out there with a macro for helping me navigate my way around? I'm pretty clueless when it comes to hex

  11. #11
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    So looks like a speed density patch was performed using HP tuners, and it was witched from a 12212156 to a 1271002 when that happened, so I think a S10 12212156 speedo and fuel segment swap word kinda work

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04colyZQ8 View Post
    I was wondering if you guys could help me do a segment swap on a 02 411 P01 Camaro PCM 1271002. I need to switch the speedo output to serial class 2. To work with a 2004 Colorado. Ideally it would be a fuel segment, and speedo segment swap. From what I can tell 2003 S10, and express van, or 2004 trailblazers, also receive speedo via class 2. (they also have a separate speed signal sent to the PCM, but it seems to work without it on the 06 trailblazer/SSR to 04 Colorado swap I did). I don't know of a compatible P01 segment with OS ID the same as 1271002, or I could have Hp tuners do it for me, or the guy that owns the truck.

    How do I save a Hp tuner file as a bin? Is there a good hex editor out there with a macro for helping me navigate my way around? I'm pretty clueless when it comes to hex
    OK, it is reality check time ... most people purchasing tuning software to make some small changes on their own vehicle, and a small portion of these people teach themselves how to adjust the VE and MAF tables based on WBO input.

    In this case you are trying to help a friend, which is a noble endeavor, but you are in way over your head. Mucking about in the raw binary when you don't have a cue, is a recipe for a bricked controller.

    I have made the following comment before, but it worth repeating ..... many of the problems encountered in a project are the result of little or no planning / research, and people getting excited and rushing head long into licensing a controller - when perhaps it is not the best controller for the job.

    In this instance, not only did someone license a controller to an HPT cable, but they also upgraded to an HPT COS (doubling the credit cost) - before confirming basic functionality - like that the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) gages worked.

    The 2004 Colorado IPC gages are fed via Serial Data. However, some of these gages receive Serial Data from the PCM, while others receive Serial Data from the BCM. This means that not only does the controller (PCM) being used have to be able to communicate with the IPC, but it also has to be able to communicate with the BCM.

    Your belief that the S10 speedometer is fed via Serial Data is incorrect - it receives a 4K output from the PCM. Some schematics may denote "Serial Data" beside many of the gages, but upon closed scrutiny it will become evident that the speedometer and tachometer have a hard-wired (non-Serial Data) feed from the PCM.

    Given the communications required by the 2004 Colorado IPC, your best bet may be to use a 2004 Express van calibration. The Express van IPC gages were fed via Serial Data, and being the same model year, you have a better chance of the communications protocols being compatible between the PCM, BCM, and IPC.

    This would mean changing to a 1Mb PCM (Blue / Green connectors) and modifying the wiring harness accordingly.

    This is merely a suggestion of a potentially closer starting point. The early Colorados used a P12 controller if memory serves, the late models used the E67 which made conversions much easier.

    I have never done an LSx conversion with an early Colorado - so all of the above should considered as merely where I would begin from if I were undertaking this project - much trial and error would follow.

    The simplest course of action would be to purchase the appropriate PCM from someone who specializes in Colorado LSx conversions - like Current Performance Wiring, or another similar supplier.

    Attached is a PDF comparing 2002 S10, 2004 Colorado, and 2004 Express IPC gage functioning - hopefully it is of some assistance.

  13. #13
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    I am not sure if you did not get my email from earlier this week, but this is a simple switch to turn on. Class II Serial Data Speedo is the 2002 code.
    Class_2_VEH_SPEED_DEFAULT_ENABLED --> BOOLEAN aka Switch --> Enable setting vehicle speed to a valid class 2 wheel speed


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caleditor View Post
    ... is a simple switch to turn on. Class II Serial Data Speedo is the 2002 code.
    Class_2_VEH_SPEED_DEFAULT_ENABLED --> BOOLEAN aka Switch --> Enable setting vehicle speed to a valid class 2 wheel speed ...
    The description sounds a lot like the switch that enables the wheel (ABS sensor) speed being sent from the EBCM to the PCM as a backup VSS input - similar to that used by the 2004 Express in the PDF I posted above.

    If this is indeed one and the same, it will not change the output type from the PCM to the IPC gages.
    Last edited by Buzz; 01-19-2014 at 03:57 AM. Reason: - typo

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    OK, it is reality check time ... most people purchasing tuning software to make some small changes on their own vehicle, and a small portion of these people teach themselves how to adjust the VE and MAF tables based on WBO input.

    In this case you are trying to help a friend, which is a noble endeavor, but you are in way over your head. Mucking about in the raw binary when you don't have a cue, is a recipe for a bricked controller.

    I have made the following comment before, but it worth repeating ..... many of the problems encountered in a project are the result of little or no planning / research, and people getting excited and rushing head long into licensing a controller - when perhaps it is not the best controller for the job.

    In this instance, not only did someone license a controller to an HPT cable, but they also upgraded to an HPT COS (doubling the credit cost) - before confirming basic functionality - like that the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) gages worked.

    The 2004 Colorado IPC gages are fed via Serial Data. However, some of these gages receive Serial Data from the PCM, while others receive Serial Data from the BCM. This means that not only does the controller (PCM) being used have to be able to communicate with the IPC, but it also has to be able to communicate with the BCM.

    Your belief that the S10 speedometer is fed via Serial Data is incorrect - it receives a 4K output from the PCM. Some schematics may denote "Serial Data" beside many of the gages, but upon closed scrutiny it will become evident that the speedometer and tachometer have a hard-wired (non-Serial Data) feed from the PCM.

    Given the communications required by the 2004 Colorado IPC, your best bet may be to use a 2004 Express van calibration. The Express van IPC gages were fed via Serial Data, and being the same model year, you have a better chance of the communications protocols being compatible between the PCM, BCM, and IPC.

    This would mean changing to a 1Mb PCM (Blue / Green connectors) and modifying the wiring harness accordingly.

    This is merely a suggestion of a potentially closer starting point. The early Colorados used a P12 controller if memory serves, the late models used the E67 which made conversions much easier.

    I have never done an LSx conversion with an early Colorado - so all of the above should considered as merely where I would begin from if I were undertaking this project - much trial and error would follow.

    The simplest course of action would be to purchase the appropriate PCM from someone who specializes in Colorado LSx conversions - like Current Performance Wiring, or another similar supplier.

    Attached is a PDF comparing 2002 S10, 2004 Colorado, and 2004 Express IPC gage functioning - hopefully it is of some assistance.
    Wow.... Wanna come over to 355 nation, so can step all over you like you just did to me? I'm going to hold my tongue figuratively speaking.. I'm new here and don't want to over step my bounds!

    Reality check time??? Such kind words thanks for those!

    I know alot about Colorad, and canyons, platform 355. I have swaped a v8 into my truck and made the cruise switch, ignition switch, and fuel guage work, I also discovered a way to Make the battery light go out without, destroying the led light. I have helped many members with wirring and tuning questions, on our forum. I am well aware of current performance, I emailed them about 4 years ago, asked about a v8 harness, and found out, a bunch of problems, that the did not have solutions for. I decided to build my own harness, and came up with a mechanical solution to all the problems cp had. It's not perfect, and I'd prefer a software solution rather then a hardware solution, that's why I came here to learn.

    I'm well aware that the cluster on the Colorado uses both the bcm, and PCM, to run gm LAN or class 2 data signals to the cluster. I have built a stand alone test bench with a moded PCM power supply, that had just the bcm and cluster hooked together, with that, an ignition switch, you can power up the cluster, zero the needles, and do a led light check. The PCM is required to run the fuel gauge, tach, temp, and speedo, via class 2,c2 pin 15, gm circuit 1807, p12 PCM, and c2 pin 15 1046 or 1036, e40 pcm. With the bench harness hooked up, and bat, ign, data either PCM p12, e40 will run the gauges ounce you wake them up via signal frequency driver, connected to the crank sensor, fuel guage, and temp, work with a pot resister for simulation. I have not been able to simulate the v.s.s accurately, on the bench yet, and gave up on that project for the time being one issue is a constant reduced power message on the Dic, when the throttle body, and pedal senors not hooked up.

    Reason for the test was to see if the stock PCM could be left to run the gauges, while the motor could be full mechanical, and or carborated, the above info helped a few members run carved motors, and still have the gauges function. All of that was just for fun, not charging for any of the guys I helped out.

    I know what it takes to make a v8 swap, and using a e40, e67, will work, but is alot more work for people, I think you would see alot more swaps if we didn't have to run ls2 throttle body's, knock sensors, etc

    I told my friend that the camaro PCM would not work, and said your speedo will not work, but now I'm curious if it can be made to work.
    Last edited by 04colyZQ8; 01-23-2014 at 08:40 AM.

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