just getting started - tbi with old school edelbrock efi conversion

[PowerAddict]

Hi guys.

So, long story short. I'm helping my uncle (finally) tune his 90 tbi (originally) suburban that he converted to the old edelbrock efi bolt on deal.....like 12 years ago. The guys burned him a like 7 different chips but it never ran well at all. It is a 7747 ecm.

It has the 24 pin uv prom in there. And we are adding the 28 pin eeprom. My questions are these:

How do I keep the info from the current tune so I can modify that one, if it is saved in the 24 pin chip?

Do I have to solder on the new chip holder? I haven't seen it yet, he says it looks like it plugs into the 24 pin chip holder and the 28 pin chip fits into that. He did buy the zif as well.

[EagleMark]

Here's the Moates instructions for installing the G2 adapter which I think is what you got?
http://support.moates.net/g2-adapter-installation/

I don't use the dip sockets and solder the G2 directly to board. That way when your done and install a chip you can get the cover back on.

You can read the 24 pin chip then burn the image to 28 pin with offsets:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Flash-and-Burn

Is this the Edlebrock TBI to MPFI conversion?

[PowerAddict]

I looked on the moates site and I didn't see those instructions! Thanks for posting that link.

What your said after that implies to my naivete that you can do it like I said and not solder it? Or you definitely have to solder it per the write-up? Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, it is the edelbrock tbi to mpfi kit.

Thanks again for your help!

[EagleMark]

I solder them in. Never tried just sticking one in place of the chip. It may work but the fit is not designed for that.

[Six_Shooter]

I would not use a '7747 in an MPFI application again. While I was able to get the engine running, it never ran well. Swapped to a '7730 with S_AUJP ($8D), and it runs great.

[dave w]

I would not use a '7747 in an MPFI application again. While I was able to get the engine running, it never ran well. Swapped to a '7730 with S_AUJP ($8D), and it runs great.

I agree with Six_Shooter, the 7730 is a much better ECM for MPFI.

dave w

[PowerAddict]

This is good information guys thanks.

I think he won't understand about the ECM issue until we try it with this one and he sees that it isn't working. So I'm sure i'm going to have to try it.

-What is s_AUJP?
-Any idea why the '7730 is better?

Also, will I need to get the $42 Bin if I'm using the tune already on the chip (I'm still trying to get a handle on what file type is what, and what each does)

Thanks again, this is a great community.

[EagleMark]

Read the TunerPro RT starter tutorial and you'll understand what all the files do and what a bin is.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-a-must-read!-)

The 1227730 $8D is a factoy MPFI ECM. S_AUJP is a modified mask.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-8D

The 1227747 $42 is a factory TBI ECM. So reading the $42 bin file from the chip you have will not be much help.

[PowerAddict]

Okay guys, I've gotten to mess with it today, and now I need some questions answered.

First, will the truck start and drive without a chip?

I'm fairly certain I figured out how to read the chip....after the G2 is inserted soldered into the board, can the 24 pin chip be inserted into the ZIF and be read to copy the chip? Some part of the green instructions say that the chip just needs to be moved all the way to the back so all unused pin slots are in the front. So, would it say it copied the chip if it really didn't?

Okay, next issue to clear up. We COULD NOT get the simultaneous data-logging and emulation to work at all. I messed with it every single iteration I could and it would never connect on the DAQ side of it. Emulation would work. WHat is the deal there? I was able to get the data-logging feature to work by itself earlier in the day. I was using the correct .ADX file.

Then, My last question - just to clarify. Are you guys saying I should be able to get a '7730 ECM and use that bin, and the thing should run just fine, plenty of power and everything? It looks like that was on an early 3.1 EFI - was that a batch-fire like this is?

Thanks again!

[Fast355]

Okay guys, I've gotten to mess with it today, and now I need some questions answered.

First, will the truck start and drive without a chip?

I'm fairly certain I figured out how to read the chip....after the G2 is inserted soldered into the board, can the 24 pin chip be inserted into the ZIF and be read to copy the chip? Some part of the green instructions say that the chip just needs to be moved all the way to the back so all unused pin slots are in the front. So, would it say it copied the chip if it really didn't?

Okay, next issue to clear up. We COULD NOT get the simultaneous data-logging and emulation to work at all. I messed with it every single iteration I could and it would never connect on the DAQ side of it. Emulation would work. WHat is the deal there? I was able to get the data-logging feature to work by itself earlier in the day. I was using the correct .ADX file.

Then, My last question - just to clarify. Are you guys saying I should be able to get a '7730 ECM and use that bin, and the thing should run just fine, plenty of power and everything? It looks like that was on an early 3.1 EFI - was that a batch-fire like this is?

Thanks again!

350 V8 memcals for the 7730 have pretty much dried up. I searched about 3-4 years ago and had to settle for a 305 Memcal which did not have the correct Knock filter installed for the 350.

Repinning the harness for the 7730 would not be too difficult after acquiring the yellow connector, but I doubt it would fit in the stock ECM location on a 90 Suburban as it is dimensionally larger than the 7747.

I would go with the EBL Flash with PFI mod. So much easier to tune, plugs right into the stock harness, no chips to burn, and much better datalogging. You will never get anywhere with the 160 baud ECM.

Other than the EBL, you could also swap to the 7427, with a PFI moded memcal and injector sense resistors bypassed.

[EagleMark]

Okay guys, I've gotten to mess with it today, and now I need some questions answered.

First, will the truck start and drive without a chip?

Maybe? There is a second chip in the 1227747 ECM called a Netres and if the ECM is in complete failure, like no chip, it will run in Limp Home Mode. This is if it is a stock TBI engine and it will run badly... who knows what it would do with MPFI?

I'm fairly certain I figured out how to read the chip....after the G2 is inserted soldered into the board, can the 24 pin chip be inserted into the ZIF and be read to copy the chip? Some part of the green instructions say that the chip just needs to be moved all the way to the back so all unused pin slots are in the front. So, would it say it copied the chip if it really didn't?

A Moates G2 adapter and a ZIF socket can not read a chip. You need a chip burner like the Burn 2.

Your talking about copying? Or are you trying to insert a 24 pin chip in the G2 with ZIF so it will run the truck?

Okay, next issue to clear up. We COULD NOT get the simultaneous data-logging and emulation to work at all. I messed with it every single iteration I could and it would never connect on the DAQ side of it. Emulation would work. WHat is the deal there? I was able to get the data-logging feature to work by itself earlier in the day. I was using the correct .ADX file.

So you have a AutoProm or Ostrich to Emulate with?

Then, My last question - just to clarify. Are you guys saying I should be able to get a '7730 ECM and use that bin, and the thing should run just fine, plenty of power and everything? It looks like that was on an early 3.1 EFI - was that a batch-fire like this is?

Thanks again!

No! The 7730 is a MPFI ECM and with a correct V8 chip/Memcal it would be a good place to start tuning.

[PowerAddict]

A Moates G2 adapter and a ZIF socket can not read a chip. You need a chip burner like the Burn 2.

Your talking about copying? Or are you trying to insert a 24 pin chip in the G2 with ZIF so it will run the truck?

So you have a AutoProm or Ostrich to Emulate with?

I suppose I meant copying. Copying the cal from the 24 pin chip onto the new 28 pin chip per the intructions you linked me, using the offset. But, along the same lines, can a 24 pin chip be inserted to run the truck (I'm assuming if that is true, than it can copy the chip as well) - I'm fairly certain it copied, I just don't know how to tell for sure...


And yes, we have the AutoProm. It says not to have a chip in the AutoProm, so I don't. It says how to move the switches, and I have messed with every way possible and no deal.

[dave w]

350 V8 memcals for the 7730 have pretty much dried up. I searched about 3-4 years ago and had to settle for a 305 Memcal which did not have the correct Knock filter installed for the 350.

Repinning the harness for the 7730 would not be too difficult after acquiring the yellow connector, but I doubt it would fit in the stock ECM location on a 90 Suburban as it is dimensionally larger than the 7747.

I would go with the EBL Flash with PFI mod. So much easier to tune, plugs right into the stock harness, no chips to burn, and much better datalogging. You will never get anywhere with the 160 baud ECM.

Other than the EBL, you could also swap to the 7427, with a PFI moded memcal and injector sense resistors bypassed.

When using 20+ year old parts, there are going to be trade offs. Budget and experience with EFI are important factors also. My experience with using a modified V6 7730 Memcal for V8 service or a 305 Memcal for a 350 have been good, but not 100% perfect.

I have experience with the EBL system, which I think is a good system. Is the price the EBL system within the budget?

I have experience with the '7427 PCM modified for MPFI. The '7427 PCM is an awesome system to use for MPFI with or without an E-Trans. I've made conversion connectors '7747 ECM to '7427 PCM's for an ultra easy plug - n - play conversions.

My choice for a MPFI system, based on my EFI experience would be the '0411 LS PCM. I designed my own external crank trigger system. I build the '0411 MPFI system on a budget that is about equal to the EBL system, but I have many hours of my time not included in the cost.

dave w

[EagleMark]

I suppose I meant copying. Copying the cal from the 24 pin chip onto the new 28 pin chip per the intructions you linked me, using the offset. But, along the same lines, can a 24 pin chip be inserted to run the truck (I'm assuming if that is true, than it can copy the chip as well) - I'm fairly certain it copied, I just don't know how to tell for sure...


And yes, we have the AutoProm. It says not to have a chip in the AutoProm, so I don't. It says how to move the switches, and I have messed with every way possible and no deal.

Pretty sure the 24 pin chip can be put into the G2 and run, just offset chip to outside, away from extra pins added to G2.

Just put both switches of AutoProm in! For get it... cable from AutoProm to ECM G2 with Zif and red ribbon is on inside of ECM, always at end of chip that had notch.

In TunerPro RT, Tools, Preferences, Data Acq / Emulation and choose AutoProm/Maftpro. Also choose Detect Harware. Close TunerPro and re open it and you should here a beep and see AutoProm listed at bottom.

Load bin, XDF and ADX in TunerPro. Upload current bin to Emulator, verify! Enable Emulation. Turn key on and CEL should come on, blink and stay on. Now your ready to start vehicle on emulation.

Have your ALDL cable end of AutoProm hooked to vehicle, you already loaded the ADX... click connect. Now you will also see data. Acqusision Show Data lists, dash board, monitor, history tables. Or set up View and choose all the toolbars and get used to Icons.

[PowerAddict]

I've done what you said. I moved both switches to the in-board side. The emulation part works, when I click the "acquire data connect/disconnect" button. The message indicator bar at the bottom stays yellow and says not connected.