Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 87

Thread: Food for thought

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Age
    55
    Posts
    219
    On the legalities if the ECM cannot be read via the OBDII port then you cannot tune the PCM, end of story there.
    I cannot say for sure if the ECM can be read by pulling it apart and hooking on equipment to read it that way using what is known as BDM or pulling the chip.
    So how is a company supposed to get the stock tunes to then re-distribute to customers?
    TIS2WEB clearly states in the Terms & Contract that any means of copying or distributing the files downloaded from TIS to your PC during a reflash is illegal

    I have been told that some of the 6.5L were acquired illegally

  2. #62
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Camden, MI
    Age
    35
    Posts
    3,026
    modifying the calibration on any vehicle is illegal... i don't see what makes this any different? just the acquisition method of the binary?
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  3. #63
    Fuel Injected!
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    244
    The 6.5's were around before TISweb became the sole source of calibrations? The files could have been obtained many moons ago, but who knows. And if they do, they arent going to discuss it on the interwebs.

    peace
    Pauly

  4. #64
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Age
    55
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertISaar View Post
    modifying the calibration on any vehicle is illegal... i don't see what makes this any different? just the acquisition method of the binary?
    It is not illegal to modify the calibration. How did you ever get that idea?


    If you need me to start another trhread outlining the EPA standards I can

  5. #65
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Age
    55
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Hog View Post
    The 6.5's were around before TISweb became the sole source of calibrations? The files could have been obtained many moons ago, but who knows. And if they do, they arent going to discuss it on the interwebs.

    peace
    Pauly
    Techline Information System (TIS) comes in a few forms. TIS has been around since OBD1 days

    Way back in the old days the TIS system was called CAMS or T100. This was a Techline application.
    Then THE TECHLINE (T-20, T-50, T-60) came out for use with the Tech I. This system used CD's that were loaded on the PC or server at the dealership. This system started with CD #13

    Then we had TIS2000 that used CD's and now we have TIS2Web.
    #53-65-08: SPS/FLASH EPROM PROGRAMMING - (Dec 5, 1995)


  6. #66
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Camden, MI
    Age
    35
    Posts
    3,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Caleditor View Post
    It is not illegal to modify the calibration. How did you ever get that idea?


    If you need me to start another trhread outlining the EPA standards I can
    is modifying the calibration not tampering with emissions equipment?
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  7. #67
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Age
    55
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertISaar View Post
    is modifying the calibration not tampering with emissions equipment?
    You may want to read up on that. Go to the EPA's website

  8. #68
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Camden, MI
    Age
    35
    Posts
    3,026
    i can't find any info from the federal EPA yet, but the ohio division turned up a hit:

    What is tampering?
    According to Revised Code section 3704.16, tampering means "to remove permanently, bypass, defeat or render
    inoperative, in whole or in part, any emission control system that is installed on or in a motor vehicle."

    ...

    Tampering involves such acts as willfully removing the converter, air pump, computer controls, etc.
    EGR deletes(whether hardware only, software only or both) are rampant on gasoline engines and from what i'm told, diesel as well. that alone certainly qualifies.

    if people were only modifying fan temps or road speed constants to better match the equipment on their vehicles, that isn't much of an issue, but i see far worse than that on a daily basis.

    i guess i need to see if the EPA has a reasonable expectation about what actually happens or if there is just a broad definition of "any change is unacceptable".

    i've seen mention of EPA and even CARB approved aftermarket calibrations, so it seems like there are only specific things that aren't allowed to be altered.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  9. #69
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Age
    63
    Posts
    10,477
    Have you ever compared a CARB approved calibration to stock? What a joke!

    CARB is a pretty lengthy process as well, basically a Detroit EFI engineer can do this and I've seen the process... It's been well worth the effort and cost when Howell did this long ago to make TBI work on Jeep I6 4.0L engines and they have sold a ,lot of systems. AFI has also done the same process but went for a more specific market of all the Airport equiptment, most all of them use six cylinder fords and for emmissions and fuel savings it was a big hit around the country.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  10. #70
    Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Lakes Region, NH
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,847
    Apparently the 96-2003 6.5 ECM's CAN be flashed with TC2 calibrations using Winflash. I dont know whats up with your setup??
    That's interesting. So the trucks and Hummers can be flashed. Our van pcm's may be similar units to the OBDI truck versions. If you remove the pcm and open the cover, you find a chip in a socket. Remove the chip and view the socket you'll see the word "BLUE" spelled out. This may have been possible because the vans, with a 10,000lb GVW, were not required to comply with light duty emissions standards so GM chose not to update that PCM? A quick look through the BCC database shows the last 6.5 diesel calibration released on a chip was released for the 1999 model year, BCC CMBA. Maybe the van I was working with was a 99, not a 2000, or maybe the chassis was built in '99 but the bus body was added in 2000 and sold as a 2000 model year. I'll have to look when I get to the shop.

    Correct they can only be programmed
    THEY CAN NOT BE READ OUT!!!!!!!

    How does anyone legally acquire a file?
    Caleditor, I think you're mixing up, or making up, rules. You obtain a calibration the same way you do with any other controller. You make a copy of it from the devise or location where it's stored.

    TIS2WEB clearly states in the Terms & Contract that any means of copying or distributing the files downloaded from TIS to your PC during a reflash is illegal
    Techline / TIS rules apply to using their software. The same rules apply to any J2534 pass-through device. The entire point of pass-through programming is to allow the aftermarket to reprogram or update vehicles with OEM calibrations without providing direct access to the calibration. Are you required to pass this notice to the vehicle owner when you use Techline software? Are you required to collect a signature of consent or agreement from the vehicle owner?

    You've been bringing up legality repeatedly since you joined. You've made several statements which go against the grain of what most of us believe is true. You imply that you have some magical powers and are completely legal and safe where the rest of us are merely mortal and probably criminal to boot. Are you itching for a fight, so to speak?

    My advise to others is to let this troll stay under his bridge for a bit.
    Last edited by 1project2many; 09-22-2013 at 07:08 PM.

  11. #71
    Fuel Injected!
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Age
    44
    Posts
    445
    I've always been told thru training that the PCM itself is an emissions device,same as a maf and that was why altering it was against the law.Same as if you solder a resistor into a maf and turn it into a granatelli clone,it is an altered emissions part.
    It makes sense,since the pcm is included in federal emissions warranty. Can't remember when i've ever replaced one using emission warranty though.

    Not that I really care about legality,I follow my own moral code-not the politicians.

  12. #72
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Age
    55
    Posts
    219
    someone must have missed this part of my signature
    GM Technician since 1999
    GM World Class Technician since 2009


    The EPA has 3 classifications for vehicles that one could apply here.
    #1 +2 to -2 years of the current model year -- I need to look up the title the EPA gives this
    #2 -2 to -10 years of current model year -- This is the intermediate class
    #3 Over 10 years old -- Out of life cycle -- this is concidered JUNK by the EPA. Look up what Out of Life Cycle means to the EPA

  13. #73
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    2,968
    What's your signature have to do with anything?

    I could post a whole bunch of credentials I have as well, but it doesn't really mean much...
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  14. #74
    Fuel Injected!
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Alamogordo, NM
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by Six_Shooter View Post
    What's your signature have to do with anything?

    I could post a whole bunch of credentials I have as well, but it doesn't really mean much...
    This^

    It's not about certs hanging on your wall.
    '86 Grand National

  15. #75
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Age
    55
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    You've been bringing up legality repeatedly since you joined. You've made several statements which go against the grain of what most of us believe is true. You imply that you have some magical powers and are completely legal and safe where the rest of us are merely mortal and probably criminal to boot. Are you itching for a fight, so to speak?

    My advise to others is to let this troll stay under his bridge for a bit.
    I am implying that the reason TC does not support older Northstar's and Saturn's and every other PCM that WinFlash can not read out is because the common person can not obtain a bin file to tune.

    I am also implying that most of the bin files for these said cars came from TIS.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-21-2012, 08:41 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •