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Thread: Segement Templates and Operating Systems

  1. #1
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    Segement Templates and Operating Systems

    If you have seen me posting about segment swapping you know I don't go for it.

    Let just look at the 512kb Gen III PCM calibrations. The OS determines the template used for the segments. Say the System segment. If GM made 1 parameter change the segment gets a new number. If you swap in a segment from say a Van you have now changed say 75 parameters that can cause issues that you will need to find a work around. If the segments are all created from the same template you just need to correct the parameters. You can setup a Vette to have a PTO if you want, but even if the PTO is not on the car you can make the car idle up like it would when the PTO is running.

    For the most part all 0411 segments are created from the same group of templates. You have a few exceptions. Even if the OSís are not the same and the segments are in different locations the segments are the same length and swappable. It makes it soooooo much easier in Hex when they are the same length. You take a 5 spd segment and a 80 and do a compare or even a 5 spd truck and a 6 spd vette and you will start to see how GM built the segments from the same templates


  2. #2
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    '86 Grand National

  3. #3
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    I have been reading about segment swaps again and I just feel sorry for the people doing them. They have no clue as to what they are doing. To me it's like purchasing a newer ZR1 and removing the blower because you don't understand how it works

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    Fuel Injected! roughneck427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caleditor View Post
    I have been reading about segment swaps again and I just feel sorry for the people doing them. They have no clue as to what they are doing. To me it's like purchasing a newer ZR1 and removing the blower because you don't understand how it works

    You need to put this in your sig http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYws8biwOYc

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    I will try that

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    I was reading about segment swaps as the golden fix all on other forums.
    From what I have found all of the segments used in the operating systems listed below are built from the same template.

    Year Model GM OSID PCM ID
    1999 LS1 9360361 P01
    1999 Truck 9373372 P01
    1999 Vette LS1 9379910 P01
    1999 Vette LS1 12593359 P01
    1999 All 9381344 P01
    2000 All 9381344 P01
    2000 Truck 12205612 P01
    2001 LS1 & Truck 12202088 P01
    2001 Truck & Vette 12208322 P01
    2002 LS1 12212156 P01
    2002 Truck 12209203 P01
    2002 LS6 12221588 P01
    2002 Holden 12225074 P01
    2002 Vette LS6 12593358 P01


    This means you can swap them as you need if you want to go with that. The documents I have show that GM had several calibrators working on the calibrations. One calibrator for the trans and trans diag segment. I would have to imagine that the calibrator pulled up his 60 or 80 segment and just altered it to fit the different vehicle. A 4L60 in a S10 is a lot different that a 60 in a Suburban.

    I will do a trans segment swap if cuts the time down on the tune.
    I have done an engine segment swap if I changed the engine type. I did a swap like this earlier this year. I had a customer with a 454 in a 1957 cab over truck and he used a Isuzu NPR chassis that came with a 6.0L. I found a NPR calibration for a 350 R engine and swapped it in.

    Related to the 512kb P01 PCM's
    The engine segment has about 1400 parameters in it. I personally would only do a segment swap it I did an engine swap other than that it's a big NO
    The engine diag segment has about 860 parameters and I like to keep it with the matching engine segment. A big no except on engine swaps
    The trans segment has almost 1000 parameters and I will swap a segment in from a vehicle that matches the my needs -- 60 to an 80 swap
    The trans diag segment has 440 parameters and I like to try to keep it to the matching trans segment
    The fuel segment has just 180 parameters. This segment needs to be the segment fro the vehicle and not something to swap in. This only contains fuel tank and EVAP parameters. You swap in a van fuel segment into a S10 or a F-body and you will be asking for issues. I DO NOT SWAP
    The system segment has 250 parameters. This needs to stay with the vehicle and I DO NOT SWAP
    The speedo segment has just 20 parameters and I have never found a use to do a speedo segment swap yet. I DO NOT SWAP.

    I have asked John at TunerCat to add parameters into the Fuel and System segments that will allow editing without doing a segment swap and causing other issues. The reason I had these added in is because I tried doing a segment swap and had issue. I needed 1 parameter changed and I would do a swap. Then I had to make 10 changes to correct other issue. This is why I got into doing work in Hex. Mick aka AussieEvil spent a long time helping me out learning hex. Mick is the one that got me off the segment swap fix. I was like a junky and Mick got me off the dope

  7. #7
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    I have an example of an engine segment issue
    I have an old beat up 1997 S10 with a 4.3L. In August I did a 0411 conversion. I have a SES on and a knock sensor DTC CURRENTLY. Should I swap in a van engine and engine diag segment just to fix the issue or just change the few needed parameters?

    This truck is my daily driver. The mileage in this truck kept getting lower and lower. I was filling up the truck twice a week. I drive about 30 miles per day. I figure I was getting less than 10 mpg. I did the 0411 swap and the truck ran great right from the start. I found that my fuel gauge was an issue. On the older truck the fuel sender is wired to the gauge. In my case I had a fuel level buffer module and that was part of the issue. I found that I had an 18 gallon tank. The most I ever put in the truck was about 13 gallons one time. From above the F mark to the E, I was running about 11 0r 12 gallons and that was part of the reason I was filling up twice a week. Burning 12 gallons in 90 mile is the other part of the issue. I ended up cutting out the buffer module and wiring the fuel gauge to the PCM.

    The last tank I used 15.57 gallons, it just hit the E line and I got 17.7 mpg. It has taken some tweaking to get the gauge working correctly, but it has paid off.

    I had a few issues with the trans tables, but this is an old truck with 230k on it. I had to make a few changed to the TCC parameters. I have not touched the engine segment yet.

    I have read that people do a van segment swap to fix the knock sensor type issue.

    later today I hope to post a little about the knock sensor issue. I have asked john to add a buck of parameters, but he has not got back to me.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughneck427 View Post
    You need to put this in your sig http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYws8biwOYc
    Gotta a good chuckle out of that. Thanks

    peace
    Hog

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