you need to un hook your battery - post before you start a new data log.
you need to un hook your battery - post before you start a new data log.
durring what part of that overly complex log are you refering to where idle is low? remember was your idea to add this extra element in.. but yep there are some spots that go rich, although i cant analys them because its not the "set your stuff right then log idle" as i asked for.. so what your saying is you cant set your min idle/iac correctly? i cant tune around incorrect settings. majority of the time in the logs the int/blm are just exactly on 128 so i dont see how those times should smell even a lil rich... remember this is same bin as before with only your requested idle changes.
i will however tell you that just the manual adjustments one can make (min idle, iac, tps, timing) can make substantial differances with a tune (make or break it) this is exactly why GM devised a process that is the same everytime to set this stuff unfortunatly its not best suited to modified engines. it is not an easy task to get all the sensors set correctly doing it the way you are because as you change the min idle the tps is changing , change one thing and another changes, this can take alot of time to get right.. then shutting off and restarting can once again change things just like reseting the ecm(disconnecting power) can.. sometimes alot of tail chasing.
i belive Mark told you how he does it.. these settings cant be done in real time on running engine to be right, it will always fight you just like if you try to turn up the timing without the proper procedure.
sorry but i cant tune these adjustments for you, you will have to get them correct first.
i have spent as much as 45mins getting these all correct on modified engines before, its sometimes frustrating.
and your theory of the ecm pulling the iac max open to reach the desired requested idle= not true, higher idle cant be achived by adding air alone.. it can be timing, air, fuel but is usually a combination of some to achive the higher idle.
tbh i cant find a single spot on the log that both the IAC and TPS are both correct at same time= lotta mixed signals for the ecm.
what speed have you set your min idle for with iac closed and disabled? thats where you need to start first.
do we need to start at basics all over again for setting your car up?
Last edited by xtreamvette69; 08-27-2013 at 04:33 AM.
are your injectors clean.look at the attached video and watch the top right injector spray pattern.i had those 39lb injectors in my turbo car and it never idled nice was rich smelling and very hard to tune but went ok WOT.the spray was so all over the show and fuel didnt atomise good enough for low rpm running.they are 4 hole bosch injectors they still have a pintal but theres a disc over the top they just sit here collecting dust as they never ran right even after 2 years of tuning and a lot of wasted fuel LOL .i now only run seimens deka 60's in all builds look through my videos to see the spray of a deka its pure WIN LOL
he should be able to tell if it idles smoothly when he is setting min idle with iac disabled i would think , is when i can tell, that and sometimes i throw the timing light and vacuum gauge on to look for any fluctuation..
No I don't. It is hallowed out.
I didn't try setting min idle with the IAC closed but that's what I will do next. I was trying to get the IAC counts down to around 30. Anyways, what RPM do you think I should set min idle? This will be the next thing I do but if you look at that log after I take it for a drive you can see that the idle is way lower than target of 825 and it isn't opening up the IAC nor doing anything to raise the idle. It is staying low???
after the drive at 22:30ms i'm seeing like 800ish as soon as its poor int/blm numbers recover from the drive (that let me remind you it isnt yet tuned for). then a lil after that i see idle going higher as you adjust the min idle screw and i also see iac going down and tps going up as expected, then i see a restart which the ecm is happy to see as it resets the iac to 0 because the min idle is adjusted a bit too open and i see the idle at 1000ish with tps of 0.61 a bit outta specs and about that time it starts going rich as well just about the same time as the iac starts to plumit to 0.
then another restart and i see tps from the previous .59 to the now .57 and gained back iac but far too much of it at 70steps idle 825 or so but since its a restart thats all before closed loop, fallowing along till closed loop its rich and understood as the tps is showing .57 then .59 so its getting enriched without the benifit of the butterflies to give it the more air... oooh then a restart so it can try to reset the strange settings its been seeing , so we start out again in restart open loop idle around 850-900 then just as it comes into closed loop to try and counteract all these odd sensor readings and with tps at .59 and high iac at 132 but just then as it starts to make changes to help these incorrect settings poof someone cuts the power annnnd yep you guessed it.. a restart, sigh.. so now back to open loop and were seeing 850-925 idle most likely very rich as havent zeroed in all these open loop restarts yet as i said, but anyhow tps still at .59 and as it runs the open loop timer the iac starts dropping till it meets closed loop at 30 steps then starts going a bit lean (possible because of the outta specs tps still at .59 idling 875-900ish, and ok i am going to stop there as that is a play by play of well over half the log... if nobody can see any problems here then they havent looked..... its not a bin problem for many reasons but one simple reason is that bins arent that random.. looks as more a sensor/settings problem to me and the bin is just reacting to the changes it sees as it is supposed to... there are reasons that settings and adjustments are done without the ecm watching and knowing about them in real time and that reason is it will just keep adjusting for them all best it can, again my example will be why do you think we unplug the dist esc wire to set the timing?
and to answer your question why isnt it doing anything to raise the idle... well 1st of all opening or closing just the iac isnt the way to change idle, 2nd of all are these low idle areas in open loop times? and 3rd the ecm cant just make the idle whatever it wants to just cause we said so lol (adjust the butterflies tight shut then command a 1000rpm idle) that is why adjustments and settings are so important, you have to give it proper conditions to be able to do its job.. there is just soo much wrong with all of how you were trying to adjust things that i'm sure most this is just ramblings much like that log was.. sorry if harsh but i dont know what to tell you without going back to basic adjustments 101.
other then that i dont know what to say or tell you without you asking, just asking why i'm sure doesnt help much.. what do you need to know? do you not know how to spend time making patient adjustments? or just assume the ecm will do as its told no matter what anything else is adjusted for? please help us to be able to help you but unfortunatly we cant just do it and it be done for you .. sorry
Last edited by xtreamvette69; 08-27-2013 at 08:19 AM.
Should I try to set min idle by closing the IAC method? And how many RPM's should I set it to?
i do it many differant ways to achive what i want, sometimes it is alot of agravating tinkering but i always get it.... all cars seem a lil differant in how they want to cooperate but i can tell you ways that usually work for me, they may not be correct but usually get me to the same end result.
now we will leave out all the OEM factory specs with the adjusting because we already know that with your setup and what you want probably wont work using the factory specs. probably shouldnt post my hack job techniques here for all to see and shake there heads in shame at me but here goes)
(make sure that the car is fully warmed up before proceeding) so for a start point i usually jumper A&B in ALDL, then turn on key and wait(listen to clicking) at least a minute, then key still on and A&B still jumpered i pull off the IAC connector. then i turn key off and remove the A&B jumper and start car... now if your shooting for 825rpm idle, i find that the ecm usually adds back about 100rpm by means of the IAC at about 20-30 steps.. so that figured i would probably set the idle to about 700-725 now that you have done set the tps shut car off and restart...that just pay some attention, how does it idle(smooth? rough? surgy?)..(depending on what you think of the idle put timing light on it and watch the timing mark, is it nice and solid? moving? how bad? consistant and fallow a pattern?) if you have one you can also hook a vacuum gauge to it and diognose its reading the same way.. all this can help you better choose what the engine wants.
now after all that is done you can go ahead shut car off, plug IAC back in, disconnect the battery(or some cars have a plug by the battyery for the ecm main power you can unplug) but whatever method you choose its just to clear codes and reset. then start the car and give it plenty of time to get everything relearned, stablised and all heated up again and see where your IAC is as well as where your idle is now dependant on that outcome is wether i have to go further or not. if my IAC still isnt right then i must go further and this can be done two ways depending on personal preferance and what you find easiest.
1st way... if high IAC then you need to close idle if low then open... to do this take note of its location then shut the car off turn idle open or closed about 1/4 turn then set tps, turn key off if you have it on using scanner to set tps then start car, give time again to stabalize and fully warm again.. still not right then just keep repeating. also as you get closer to zeroed in turn screw less and less then 1/4.
2nd way...you can basically do it the same way as above but with engine running and you can see the changes a lil closer to real time but be warned that the IAC number you see will not be the same as it will be when you restart the engine so it is kinda a feel thing(you will see the IAC number changing a few seconds after you change the idle screw but that wont be the same number you will see on the restart )anyhow if you do this method then you would next set the tps then shut off and restart to see where your iac is at now after of course the routine stabalize and warm up yattya yatta... not right? then do it again you will slowly get it zeroed in.
now i cant tell you what method may work best for you nor can i even tell you which would be easiest for you but i can tell you that if your patient you can get the numbers to read what you want.. now just a lil note and that is that changes to the idle screw are probably amplified a lil by your larger TB as there is more area being moved at a time, so even 1/4 turn may be tons for that tb.
best i can tell ya without showing you hope it helps ya out some .. others can feel free to chime in and say how crazy my methods are and how to correctly do it as well.
and ffs i gotta learn to not babble so much lol others could have probably said this same thing in like 4 words and probably would have made more sense.
i think i should use a babble translator for posting, anyone have an addy?
Last edited by xtreamvette69; 08-27-2013 at 12:17 PM.
Lol. Ok, I'll try Mr.Babbler lol.
Does this refer to the converter? It's much harder to make the exhaust smell "clean" without the converter. This can effect O2 signal lag times as well.No I don't. It is hallowed out.
Yes, I bought the car like that and left it.Originally Posted by 1project2many
Xtreamvette, I won't have anytime tonight to play around with the IAC, I'll try tomorrow but I'm not sure. When I do get a chance I will post a log with a cold start till warm up. Thanks.
seems like someone got either really busy or just gave up....
btw do you have a vacuume gauge?
I didn't give up just really busy. We have a month old baby and everyone is coming over to visit. Plus I can't spend everyday on my car, the wife is starting to get pissed lol. I will continue on but it's gonna just have to be slowly. Sorry. Yes I do have a vacuum guage, why? I don't have a timing light at home but we have one at the shop I work at on Saturdays.
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