86 Iroc 350 with 30lb injectors

[xtreamvette69]

isnt disc type like these the same as gm disc type(werent they the lucas type) that everyone hated so much except for these have 3 holes?

i'm kinda a beliver in sticking to basic pintle type or the bosch III type tbh instead of something odd like those.

[ZEDRATED]

isnt disc type like these the same as gm disc type(werent they the lucas type) that everyone hated so much except for these have 3 holes?

i'm kinda a beliver in sticking to basic pintle type or the bosh III type tbh instead of something odd like those.

Sounds good. Thanks.

[ZEDRATED]

No time tonight and a wedding tomorrow. Looks like I won't get that log on here till Sunday. Sorry.

[xtreamvette69]

no rush... as i said before, its your watch..

but ohh look what i found in a box on my parts shelf

[ZEDRATED]

What are those? Who makes em? Is that a tpis mini ram intake I see in the background?

[xtreamvette69]

there ford racing red tops (30#) and no thats not a tpis mini ram, everyone knows those are for girls ... its one of my polished HSR (holley stealth rams)...

lol j/k about the mini rams for girls lol
we all know girls need more intake then that

[ZEDRATED]

Hahahahahaha. FORD: Found On Road Dead!
Would those injectors fit my set up?

[ony]

the gasoline I tested had very little or no ethanol in it the next I buy at the same place may be different,the pump says up to 10% ethanol. so before I would change 14.7-1 to something different I would test what I was burning then you are acurat on your tune.

[ZEDRATED]

I think that leaving it at 14.7:1 would be best just like a modern day car but I'm just going to go along with Xtreamvette and see where we get.

[xtreamvette69]

actually most "modern cars" as you call them have a means to sense ethanol content of fuel there running and adjust to those settings, unfortunatly your car does not, nore do you even ever know the ethanol content of the fuel your using, unless you have one of these HERE (or you can also test without buying anything if you have a clear container that will hold fuel that is tall enough to mark off equal graduations on.)

anyhow the closest you could come to being like "the modern cars" would be to have at least 2 tunes and a moates G3 Bank Switching Adapter with or without the optional EX Remote Switch /w/LED and of course knowing the amount of ethanol.

[ZEDRATED]

How do today's cars have a sense of what they running? Even if I bought a moates switch and Ethenol tester what would I do test each tank I fill up? I only fill maybe once a month as I do not drive the car all that much. Our 94 octane fuel never used to contain any ethanol but now it does say may contain up to 10% just like the rest.

[ZEDRATED]

I will get that log posted on here sometime tomorrow.

[RobertISaar]

very few vehicles have actual ethanol sensors... because they're not anywhere close to cheap.

as far as i can tell, the PCM watches for fuel trims and adjusts target AFR to match. i would assume spark modifications are done at the same time as well.

[EagleMark]

I think that leaving it at 14.7:1 would be best just like a modern day car but I'm just going to go along with Xtreamvette and see where we get.

Think again?

Newer cars like flex fuel have an Ethanol content sensor in the fuel line. Here's how Stoich AFR is set up. Notice the AFR around 10%?

[xtreamvette69]

i see the question has already been handled lol, which is good because my best answer was going to be more in the form of a *how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuch wood* sorta answer.. as follows....
***You could use a fuel sensor from a later flex-fuel Tahoe which measures the amount of oxygen in the fuel . Since gasoline has no oxygen content and Ethanol does, you could calculate the amount of oxygen in the fuel and therefore the amount of alchohol. You could then have a table that adjusts the stoich AFR based on the amount of alchohol in the fuel. You would then always be at the right stoich AFR setting and BLM's would stay steady. This is how the flex-fuel vehicles do it.

i'm also going to add a little excerpt direct from Innovate(suppliers of WBO2 products)

Tuning Tip: Ethanol Content
We've had a few reports where users could not “nail down” their tune on the street with the LM-1. The AFR's would jump about 0.5 AFR across the WOT band even in the same weather conditions in the space of a few days. Instead of holding a tune, the engine seemed to slowly “yodel.”
Naturally the first thing to blame was the LM-1. But it turned out that the users filled up at different gas stations, sometimes filling up on gas that had 10% ethanol mixed in. As expected, when Schnapps is mixed with cars, things get a little complicated.
If ethanol (stoich AFR of 9) is mixed with gasoline (stoich AFR of 14.7) the resulting gas has a lower stoich AFR than 'pure' gasoline. As the fuel injection is tuned to mix a certain amount of fuel for a given amount of air, the resulting mixture would be leaner when using a fuel with lower stoich AFR.
This can be calculated:
sAFR = (%ofAdditive * sAFRadditive + (90-%ofAdditive) * sAFRgas) /100
where:
sAFR is resulting stoich AFR
%ofAdditive is amount in % of mass of additive (ethanol) mixed in
sAFRadditive is stoich AFR of additive (9 for ethanol)
sAFRgas is stoich AFR of base gasoline (14.7)
For a 10% mixture of ethanol to gasoline by mass the resulting stoich AFR is 14.13
So, for an engine that's tuned to certain AFR at a certain load and RPM on straight gas, the resulting (gasoline equivalent) AFR when running the mixture can be calculated as:
new AFR = tuned gas AFR * (gasoline stoich ratio) / blend stoich ratio
An engine tuned to 12.5 gas AFR will run at the equivalent of 13 gas AFR with a 10% ethanol blend. This is what these people were seeing.
Of course, when running in closed loop, the engine will run at 14.13 AFR instead of 14.7. O2 sensors (incl. widebands) don’t measure AFR, but Lambda. Lambda is defined as actual AFR/stoich AFR. It's a ratio. In closed loop part throttle the engine is just running at Lambda 1.0, regardless of fuel. The same would be true for other Lambda values when running closed loop at WOT using a wideband. The engine would run at the tuned Lambda and everything would be fine. Open loop systems would need to be retuned for alcohol blends though.
Until next time... Keep On Tuning!


So knowing that it is benificial to change the commanded "stoich value" in bin to 14.13 if you are running ethanol 10%. Also the switching points may need to be changed(increased?) to account for an riched A/F.


also i belive that to be true on some cars as well Robert, but again unfortunatly note something that Zed's ecm is capable of doing.