OK Xtreamvette, let's go for it. You wanted the word from the last post? You got it. Let's do this. Start fresh and let's see where we can get. My tuner is leaving Tuesday to head back up north for work so there is no way we can fix it in one night so I will call him tomorrow and I guess there goes $600 down the drain!
You think I closed that thread to start this all over? Forget it! But I am a very patient and forgiving person, so if you want to try this again it's OK. If someone wants to help you? Fine. You must show some ability to learn, listen and follow instructions and show results!
Understand?
1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
-= =-
Ok, I want to try a bin from scratch with Xtreamvette and see where we get. Thanks.
if you are truely sure that you want to persue this building of a bin rather then finish with your tuner then ok, but i wouldnt just say bye bye to the $600. but ya this thread isnt about that i guess.
so ok here is probably the most suitable base i can find for your application.. yes its for a 350, yes its for al. heads, yes its for around 10:1cr, yes its manual...etc etc etc.
i have already set the preliminaries..FI size, FI inj vs batt offsets(accels recomended), base timing, fans disabled, egr disabled, vats disabled etc yadda yadda ....
to start out we will need a log showing from startup on into closed loop(please include nothing but idle for the whole warmup into closed loop as well as at least 3-5 mins in closed loop as well as at least 3-5mins of idle at full operating temp) so we can get a base foundation for the proper AFR for idle.
Also please be very specific in things you notice durring logging about how its running, smells etc, take notes if needed as i do and post this info with your log.
we couldhave continued with the zz4 bin but i have pretty much lost track of where we were in that one.
here is what we will be using..
Last edited by xtreamvette69; 08-19-2013 at 07:06 AM.
Ok thanks and yes I want to try this. I will deal with my tuner today but let's just forget about him, his bin and his cheating ways. I will burn this bin and log as soon as I get a chance. This is going to be a long process so I will do everything you ask asap. Thanks again for your time and patience.
Here is the log you requested, fuel pressure is set to 44psi KOEO. It was running really rough and shut off once and kept wanting to shut off unless I gave it some throttle, as soon as it went into closed loop I guess the O2 started adjusting and it then was idling good. In closed loop smelled a little rich. I am going to order a wideband O2 sensor off ebay tomorrow since I have a bung welded in I might as well put one in. Thanks again for your time, let me know what you think. Also can we adjust the idle to 825, this car really seems to like that idle speed. Sorry if sometimes I sound illiterate, most of the times I am typing off my iPhone, wish they had an app that could tune my car lmao!
Last edited by ZEDRATED; 08-20-2013 at 06:17 AM.
The otr intake and maf close to throttle will be hard to tune with maf i know ls1 are and most go map.
i find it interesting that most 3800s had the MAF sensor integrated into the throttle body.... i'm not a fan of that design, seems like a lot of turblence would be experienced by the sensor, especially at lower throttle openings.
1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E
tbh i do agree with alot said here, like i do agree on injector swap to some injectirs with known correct data. you could even consider it an upgrade if you go with something like the bosch III's which are the 4 hole design and are said to have better attomization, and tbh if you sold yours on ebay i'm betting the swap wouldnt cost you much extra out of pocket... i also agree that the tune shouldnt and wouldnt take long like the 20min example given if car was in hand but you have to consider that the way were doing this atm is only averaging one lil change a day instead of log, change log change constantly over that 20mins(i do plan to give instructions and have Zed get a lil more hands on with changes to speed things up soon as we find suitable inj base numbers that seem close, i belive that the other zz4 bin we were working on was a reasonable close start but yes felt that fresh start was in order as i kinda lost track of where we were with that bin once he had a local tuner.
as for the map vs maf, i'm going to have to disagree with map being easier, its only easier to you guys because thats what you have most experiance with. the maf systems are so much more forgiving as they are able to self adapt much better then the map based systems. and the reason that map systems have more tables to adjust is because everything is and has to be a calculation unlike the maf which does the calculations direct from the actual air flow of the engine rather then having to calculate it all. with that said i do belive there are alot of great uses that truely do need the map based setups like boosted, or those times that the engine combo maxes out the maf based systems like in the case of alot of the 383 combos. now i could be all wrong here but this is just my opinion on the maf vs map and if you read around it also seems a shared opinion that tuning maf is easier then tuning map, but to each there own.
now back to Zed's situation and setup..yes that setup should just fire up and run decent from a stock bin, preferably a corvette style bin as thats what his combo most closely resembles in terms of CID, CR, Al. Heads, etc. and it does start and run on stock bin with nothing more then inj constant change but then runs way lean, on the other hand with the inj constant set at 26.5 it was running pretty close to the target 128blm at idle, so what does this tell us... does it tell us to pay closer attention to accel saying the injectors flow at 27.9 at 39.2 psi fuel, does it tell us that accel injectors are unconsistant and odd without proper specs sheet needed or does it just tell us we need to just treat these injectors as they need to be treated to make the engine happy and use whatever constant works best to get a decent base around 128blm then work tables from there.. yes known injectors would take one big step out of the puzzle but tbh i cant say i have even ever seen all the needed data avalible for even the newer bosch III style 4 hole injectors as popular as they seem... but i do know if there bought from a reputable rebuild service that these rebuild services not only match them but also can flow test and are able to give that data as well as volt ofset data as well.
ohh and also that msd box does kinda bother me a bit as i remember many telling horror problems with tuning engines that have them, i just cant remeber if its because of interferance, or hooked up wrong or what the issues were atm but i should look that up again soon as i get time.
Last edited by xtreamvette69; 08-20-2013 at 10:57 PM.
Ok, so Xtreamvette, do I leave my fuel pressure the way it is then for the next log?
yep just leave it as is ... lets just see how much % change these lil changes make.
MAF is a much better product today along with the PCM... then this system...Originally Posted by xtreamvette69
MSD is not needed with both GM type HEI ignition and EFI. All it does is cause issues and wear out cap and rotor 3x faster.
But since you mention noise? One spark plug wire in picture one should be moved, looped, not tucked back along side of two others in cap and running along side of coil.
Another thing to check for noise is the four spark plug wires loomed over the top of wiring has at least an inch or 2 clearence from all EFI wiring.
Good looking motor you got there ZEDRATD!
One more issue with tune xtreamvette69 I'm not sure you looked at? Is AIR turned off? It is a major HOG and causes all sorts of issues when I looked through $6E code last time. Not even sure if the enable temp is in the XDF?
1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
-= =-
Oh, I forgot to mention that picture is over a year old. The car now has air and engine bay looks a lot nicer now EagleMark but thanks for the comment.
i did think about the computer trying to account for its having an AIR/smog pump if thats what you mean and i didnt see any such thing listed in XDF ... so ya idk but should the ecm really be doing anything diff with fuel to account for that? sure it shoots air in the exhaust before the o2 but on cold start the o2 is doing nothing anyhow, so idk but i would think that the ecm does nothing special with fuel durring the time the AIR is supposed toi be dumping air into the exhaust but idk for sure..
and we know Zed that you dont have it anymore that is why were discussing it .
and in responce to :
But since you mention noise? One spark plug wire in picture one should be moved, looped, not tucked back along side of two others in cap and running along side of coil.
i was running a madson crossfire cap for HEI on mine before, but they were so hard to get back when i bought it that i took it off for safe keeping but i now see that was it msd or accel now has them avalible for HEI.. still kinda expensive but cleans up the wires really nicely by never having to have wires cross over one another.
was also running the armor shield stainless braid wires but took those off as well thinking they might have been a source of an issue, i dont think they were and will try them again once all issues are resolved. i just couldnt decide if there design would add noise or shield noise lol looked good though but again kinda pricey.
Last edited by xtreamvette69; 08-20-2013 at 11:56 PM.
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