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Thread: How many E fans? Turned AC advice!

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    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    How many E fans? Turned AC advice!

    Reworked my A/C in the recent past. Working pretty good but I got to thinking, what if I added ANOTHER fan to help move air across the condenser, that should help cooling at idle when the only air moving over the condenser is from the fans.... I already have two electric fans switched by the PCM, can I get away with running three fans in total? My main fan is on the radiator, and I have the second smaller fan setup on front of the condenser to push air through the condenser.

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    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    The PCM should be controlling a fan relay... so you could run 100 fans if you want and relay or relays are supplied properly

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
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    as long as you have most/all of the radiator and condenser surface area covered with fan blades with 2 fans, you're pretty much at the top of how much air can be moved through. are your primary and secondary fans essentially on-center in relation to each other? if so, you may find better results by offsetting one of them.

    a good fan shroud helps as well, since it forces air to travel the path you want it to.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


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    Fuel Injected! bentrod's Avatar
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    Just a note of power and current considerations. The fans I've used take about 10-12 amps each to run. If you're going to run another, it would be wise to make sure where you're connecting it can supply the power and the wire gauge is sufficent.
    1990 GMC C1500, 5spd, 1993 LT1 (ECM 16159278 $DA3)

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    You can change fans to a higher cfm.mid 90s model Taurus had a two speed fan that pulled a ton of air.you can have temp. controle speed or compressor controle speed.

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    Thanks for the feedback guys.
    The fans are offset in relation to one another and I don't have a ton of room to add another fan so if I do, it will have to be small, and a supplemental shroud wouldn't hurt.
    I just had a new compressor and drier installed, the system flushed, evacuated, recharged to the tune of about $450 bucks not including the cost of the compressor and drier. I monkeyed around with this A/C system last summer and got it working good for a while. But the original compressor from 1990 crapped out so I opted to pay somebody to put it all together for me this time around, I just didn't want to mess with it.
    Soooo, all this money later and I still have been forced to buy a set of manifold gauges and vacuum pump, plus I still have to buy a new compressor as well, or at least a clutch for this one.
    I purchased the compressor from RockAuto and it has been nothing but trouble so far. The compressor clutch was billowing out smoke just the other day, and since then it's been hot enough at the compressor clutch that it broke my belt, AND melt the electrical connector that plugs into the compressor itself
    This is not my picture, but it shows where that plug is. If I test this plug with my meter for some reason I have about 2 volts less than the battery, so I need to figure out what this means. I'm assuming that this kind of voltage drop is signifcant? Not sure where to begin on this one here?

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    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    The week old A/C compressor on my truck bit the dust on me last night: smoked the compressor clutch, broke the belt, melted the plug on the compressor clutch…. yeah…….

    I get about .3 volts of voltage drop at the end of that plug when it's unplugged from the compressor. But, plug it onto the compressor and the voltage drop is over 2 full volts!!!! And here I thought I was doing good by getting a AC Delco unit that is SUPPOSEDLY made in the states. A cheap chinese unit probably would have lasted.. Oh the irony……..

    It seems to me like the obvious culprit is the compressor, for whatever reason it's causing the voltage drop and other problems. What do ya'll think?

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    Fuel Injected! bentrod's Avatar
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    Sounds like you need a new compressor LOL.

    But yea I guess it happens. I went through a similar thing with starters. Never again will I give in a factory starter. From now on they are just getting rebuilt forever.
    1990 GMC C1500, 5spd, 1993 LT1 (ECM 16159278 $DA3)

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    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Yep and that's exactly what I thought as well. I just bought this compressor from RockAuto nearly a week ago and they have been EXTREMELY UNHELPFUL regarding customer service over this issue with their faulty compressor.

    I would think that .3 volts of voltage drop is acceptable by the time the current flows through all the wires, connectors, relays etc. What do you think?


    But over two volts of voltage drop at the compressor itself is just ridiculous. That's definitely the problem.

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    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Keep bitching to RockAuto and they will make it right.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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    You really think so? This time last summer I monkeyed with my A/C and got it working pretty well but the original compressor from 1990 failed shortly thereafter. Since it was getting into the cooler months I let it go. Then, about a week or so ago, I bought a compressor and drier and paid one of my mechanic friends to install it all because I honestly didn't feel like messing with it again this time around.

    Long story short the only thing RockAuto was wiling to do was refund or replace the compressor. I felt like they should at least help with the cost of evacuating, and charging the system AGAIN since their compressor was the point of failure that necessitated servicing the A/C system again, merely days after the install. They weren't willing to do that so I told them to just refund it and that I was done with them. I wrote them a pretty nasty email after trying to reason with them several times since it was their compressor that caused all these other problems.

    I said screw it, went out and bought a set of manifold gauges and a vacuum pump from harbor freight. The gauges are actually pretty nice for a mere fourth the cost of the more expensive name brand gauges. I'm going to get another compressor from a local store, and do it all myself this time.

    It's just maddening, RockAuto's stupid compressor failed and caused all these other problems and they won't honor anything except the compressor. And what good would that be anyways, they'd probably just send me another junk compressor. Their compressor not only failed, but their stupid compressor also destroyed my belt, melted that electrical plug, and has caused me all this agravation and wasted money for nothing.

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    a few questions and comments come to mind..
    first off if things are as you describe with the voltage dropping while connected it would seem you have high resistance on the a/c clutch coil, did you check it? would be nice to know for comparison to your new one. doesnt sound normal but idk what the specs would be for resistance of the coil and drop when hooked up are truely supposed to be.

    i'm going to assume that the a/c was all working "properly" (have to assume because you only say it was working "pretty good"). could the clutch have been slipping and not turning the compressor all of the time from the compressor turning too hard under the load of compressing? possibly overcharged system? but that probably wouldnt have melted the plug but high resistance in the coil and even the melted plug could have been secondary from the cause of the clutch slipping and getting hot and cooking everything. other things to consider as errors would be..where was the a/c oil added?(what components and how much in each or was oil just added with charge) how much a/c oil was added?
    just because it was hired done dosnt mean it was done right.

    could just have been the compressor but my point is to not always blame the new part before looking into it further, i have seen alot of people replace the same "bad new part" over and over only to later find the true issue or just get lucky enough to cure the issue by accident. there are many times multiple possibilities of causes for problems.

    and onto fan/fans depending on fitment(your radiator size) look into the lincoln mark 8 2-speed fan and volvo relay.. more fan then you could ever need and a very nice efficiant shroud assembly.
    Last edited by xtreamvette69; 08-09-2013 at 08:42 AM.

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    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Could have been not proper amount of oil, or compressor not flushed with oil, or oil not put in all parts of system before evac and fill?

    Your lucky you got compressor refund.

    If you want good AC parts and all the help you need go to:
    http://www.ackits.com/

    This is where I learned AC and I have all the equipment to do R12 and R134a... to keep R12 systems going without the expense of R12? Use Enviro Safe. It comes in cans like R12 but all it is is LPG, this is what is used in Europe.

    My Suburban air has been working flawlessly for 3 years with it...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Yeah I guess I could check the resistance on the compressor, I'm pretty sure that's what it is at this point after examining nearly everything else in that circuit: wiring, cycling switches, A/C relay etc….


    The vent temps were as low as 39* whenever the compressor was working right so it can't get any better than that. Now maybe a little more air flow while idling would help in my case, but it still never got above 50* when idling, again provided the compressor was working right.


    A low voltage situation such as this can cause a high amp draw which in turn is higher amounts of heat. Low voltage would explain the clutch malfunctioning, if the voltage was insufficient the clutch probably wouldn't be able to fully, properly engage and disengage. I have seen the low voltage --> high amp --> high heat condition many times.


    Nobodies perfect, but I know these guys and I know them well, I'm always up there looking up things on their ALLDATA. They aren't fly by nights.


    I definitely don't subscribe to the throw parts at it till it's fixed mentality, but I've just about exhausted every other possibility.


    I have one full-size fan on the radiator and it cools the engine excellently. It even pulls a little air through the condenser on that side as well. The condenser I have setup with it's own, smaller fan running as a pusher on the front of the condenser itself. I think that by the time I get this compressor situation sorted out, I probably won't need more than the 2 fans I have. I've got about a half dozen other electric fans I've salvaged if I need them though.




    I've heard of ackits.com before, wasn't sure if they were legit.


    I'm running R134a in my 90…. LPG as in liquid petroleum gas???? Is your 'burb R12/envirosafe or is it converted to R134a?

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    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    The 90 Suburban is R12 system running Enviro Safe = LPG.

    A few years back I had a small R12 leak and used my old R12 recovery machine to claim all freon. I always run a little UV dye so I can find leaks. Fixed the O ring and put a new drier on it just because. I had redone the entire system a few years earlier so all O rings were new...

    Evacuated system and went to refill and nothing? Not a? No R12? My almost full bottle was empty? The recovery machine had a leak?

    Do to cost and licensing to get R12 it was time to do a R134a conversion, but that is costly and time consuming to flush entire system clean of oil to change to R134a oil etc... I had been researching past all internet forum rumors and decided LPG was worth a shot, it's way cheap! Works with both R12 and R134a oil so? Like I said Im on my 3rd summer and still cold air!

    One of the biggest rumors was LPG was flammable... well duh! An engeneer type figured the R12 with oil was just as flamable. Then found that LPG is what is used in Europe... laws from lobbist to our wonderful goverenment is why we have to use R12 which was an environmental nightmare, then the change to R134a. Guess whos lobbist persuaded our government to use these freons? Yup Dupont who makes and sells R12 and R134a...

    AC is very particular, there's no close about it. It's all perfect or does not work. So it's not that your throwing parts at it? Just that they all have to be perfect! Along with a total flush and clean/dry especially after a compressor fail!!! Spotless or failure!

    My 98 Chevy AC got warm last year. Already had all new GM lines a couple years back, little dye and found the leak on compressor. New compressor and clutch from ACKits.com with a drier and expansion valve, one extra once of oil just in case I lost some, evacuate and it held overnight. Filled and now one year and still cold! But it was R134a so my cost on that was cheap and I used it.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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