TBI install on Fresh Rebuilt 350 & a Newbie Programmer

[cyclemotor]

1. Got emulation to work following your procedure :) I wasn't hitting the up arrow icon before. After this I connected to data log and viewed sensor values in item list. Still same wrong values as data dash. See image here:

item list sensor data view 8-18-2013.jpg

2. Checked diagnostic wiring. A8 and A9 were transposed. Corrected that condition. Still same wrong values on sensors.

Now the CEL blinks continuously.

I noticed your ALDL wiring instructions do not match the diagram you posted the link to which I had it set up as:
(http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...5&d=1331599707).
If I understand you I should not be following this diagram.

3. Voltage check

A6: Verified as 12V w/key ON and cranking
B1: Verified as 12V w/key ON and cranking. Changed to BATT 12V constant.
C16: Verified as 12V w/key ON and cranking. Changed to BATT 12V constant.

After all the above mentioned I still get the same sensor values in item list. I have connected/disconnected data loggin with no change either way.
At this point the CEL is blinking continuously. This started aftter I switched the diagnostic wiring and has continued.

Look at wiring to your fuse panel, the ECM needs Batt power all the time and it also needs Ignition on power. This power has to be steady from key on, to crank and back to key on. Un-interrupted!

B1 and C16 need 12 volt all the time.
A6 needs power when key on.
Use this sheet to check voltages with key on:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...0&d=1331599730

Now lets start with ALDL wiring.
ALDL port pin A to Ground
ALDL port pin B to ECM A8
ALDL port pin E to ECM A9

That's it, nothing else, like this diagram.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...5&d=1331599707

AutoProm move both switches in.
TunerPro load your XDF, ADX and bin file like you have in those pictures.
TunerPro hoover over the Up Arrow and it should say "Upload Current Bin to Emulator" and click it.
Then over three Icons is Verify Emulator Ram against Current bin" If it Verifies OK?
Then over to next Icon and Emulate, click.
Now you are emulating the bin loaded in TunerPRo from the AutoProm.

Turn key on and watch for it to come on, blink and stay on?

I know everyone wants to use the dashboards but I'm not sure how each one is set. You need to right click on everything and choose what you want there. So let's leave that alone for now.

Open Item lists to Sensor Data to see what is happening.

Now go over to Double arrows and Acquire Data (Connect/Disconnect). What's happening?

[EagleMark]

Yes follow the diagram, I swapped a couple...

Now that you have wiring correct... If CEL is flashing? Then have to trun off key and start the AutoProm procedure all over. Data will never work with flashing CEL, this is a sign that AutoProm is not emulating properly EPROM Failure...

[cyclemotor]

Switched ALDL wires back and the CEL is working properly now. Blinks once then continuous on. Went through the Autoprom procedure a couple times and switched ignition on and off to. Still same wrong sensor values. I noticed that the Coolant temp value did change when I pressed the gas pedal. Now it's locked up and won't change again.

One thing I should mention is I have the remote switch and G2X adapter from Moates. The switch is plugged into the adapter board and set to #1. I tried a few other positions just for kicks but nothing changed.

Yes follow the diagram, I swapped a couple...

Now that you have wiring correct... If CEL is flashing? Then have to trun off key and start the AutoProm procedure all over. Data will never work with flashing CEL, this is a sign that AutoProm is not emulating properly EPROM Failure...

[EagleMark]

ALDL port pin A to Ground
ALDL port pin B to ECM A9
ALDL port pin E to ECM A8

[cyclemotor]

Yep, this is how I have it installed. I'm thinking I may take my equipment over to my brothers house and hook up to his 1990 Chevy Work truck w/350 and TBI. If I can data log on there that will narrow it down to my vehicle vs the TunerPro RT software/Moates hardware problem.

ALDL port pin A to Ground
ALDL port pin B to ECM A9
ALDL port pin E to ECM A8

[EagleMark]

Your going to have to find out how to emulate properly through that G2x switching device. I've never used one and can't find instructions on Moates. But only one position will work. Pass through I believe. I'm not really sure what the AutoProm would do if voltages were changed on pins as it emulates?

[cyclemotor]

Well good call EagleMark. I spent about 20 minutes today with Moates remoted into my laptop plugged into my vehicle. After trying a bunch of stuff including moving the switches on the AutoProm, he had me unplug the Remote switch and bingo- I have real live data that makes sense. So- he told me when I am data logging or emulating that I should leave it un plugged for now... later once I have the engine running and I'm ready to have multiple tunes they will show me a way to correct this issue. Apparently it needs to be in position "Zero" which isn't possible to do by pressing the buttons on it. When I made the purchase they told me I needed the switch with the adapter or the adapter itself wouldn't work. This has turned out to be wrong apparently. Once we were getting data I went ahead and logged myself moving the gas pedal and then cranking it. Now I'm into trouble shooting mode! About time! He said there should have been RPM data and that that portion of the distributor/module wiring or ECM may be a problem. I don't know yet. I have to dig into this. I'm going to attach the data log XDL file here and the next few days get into this.

Thanks for all your effort on walking me through all the things double checking everything. I feel more prepared to move further even though it took some time.

Edit: tried to add XDL file but not sure how so I won't be including this.

Your going to have to find out how to emulate properly through that G2x switching device. I've never used one and can't find instructions on Moates. But only one position will work. Pass through I believe. I'm not really sure what the AutoProm would do if voltages were changed on pins as it emulates?

[EagleMark]

At bottom of Quick Replay you will see Go Advanced, click. Then under the Advanced window you will see Attachment Manager.

[cyclemotor]

Here are the two successful data logs. The first one is a little longer with a few seconds of cranking. That's when all the lines really start moving around.

The one with 545pm in the title is a shorter log I did (still includes cranking) after getting off the phone with them where I unplugged the fuel pump power because I'll just keep flooding the engine. I also tightened the battery connection and let a charger sit on the battery for a while first too. Moates told me the RPM may not register if voltage is dropping low enough during crank. It is a new battery...

I don't know for sure if a lack of RPM reading in the data log is an issue yet. I have advice from a buddy that is a mechanic/tuner that I should make sure there is power present to the distributor/module during cranking. I'd think since I have spark that I do but I'm going to look into this. He also said some of the earlier computers may not even be able to report the low cranking RPM. I don't know how all of this would relate to rich fuel condition on crank yet but I'm happy that I'm connected!!!

Just to reiterate- I have the entire system off the '88 suburban including:

• distributor
• coil
• intake manifold
• TBI
• OEM fuel pump in my custom tank
• engine harness
• all original sensors except the VSS which I will order once the darn thing shows me it can run

[one92rs]

as for the CTS. I put in a new thermostat. bleed the system as usual.ran the car and it seemed to run just a little warmer than usual. then it started using more fuel. a lot more. when I went to replace the cts I was going to do a quick change and pull one out and put the other in real quick. when I was loosening the old CTS I got air out from the threads then coolant. screwed it back in and all my problems with that were solved. I have mentioned this to several other people that have tried it. a few of them had it fix their particular problem. no promises but it is an easy test.

[EagleMark]

Hard to tell what is happening in thse short logs and the engine never running?

I can see where it is cranked at voltage goes to 8.x volts. Not really sure if RPM will show there?

Again, you do have to make sure everything with Pink wires has power from key on to crank and back to key on. This is a huge problem with conversions. One easy way I avoid this is to use the wire that went to coil on old car to be the trigger for a relay. There's not much else on old cars that has power during cranks, it all dies during crank.

Another couple things that flood engines are CTS as one92rs mentioned but in your log it's readin 88F and 31c so it's working. When they fail it reads -40c. The other is MAP hooked up wrong, yours changes MAP kpa when cranking so that is a good sign. It should be plumbed to vacuum port center of TBI rear between the 2 fuel lines.

Next is to much fuel pressure. What is your pressure with key on... only get 2 seconds... or jump the relay to keep it on. should be about 13 PSI.

[cyclemotor]

Fuel pressure checked out at 12PSI before the TBI unit in line. Here's a pic of my temporary gauge install. I'm wondering if the injectors could be not working properly. This system did come out of a vehicle that was sitting for about 10 years almost.
fuel pressure guage.JPG

Pink wire has power Ignition ON and crank. I confirmed the power wire from coil to ignition module in distributor is seeing it during crank too. You can see my aftermarket Centech wire harness fuse panel here. All the TBI wires either run to the upper right terminal blocks where IGN ON and Crank are or they go to the constant BATTERY terminal block on the left side.
fuse panel.JPG

On the Voltage during crank- I have a big copper terrminal block for all my connections. I suppose there's some slight current loss thee but figured it would be minimal. All the lugs are clean and the copper is clean. I'm not sure if the voltage seen during crank is normal or not.
underhood.jpg

[EagleMark]

OK, so all looks well. What's the issue? I lost track? If your just worried about RPM showing in data? Don't worry and start it and see if you have RPM. Do you have spark?

Looking at your power/fuse block I see a lot of grounds... the EFI system should be grounded back to block, usually 2 spots like a factory harness.

[cyclemotor]

The issue is it won't start. I have spark but the injectors are flooding the engine. It will fire off if I go WOT but then all the excess fuel catches fire. Now that I've checked so many things I'm wondering if the injectors could be bad. In the past I have read that the Large TBI ones are less likely to plug than small ones from a multiport system. I'm going to look into testing them anyhow. Not sure what else to do.

OK, so all looks well. What's the issue? I lost track? If your just worried about RPM showing in data? Don't worry and start it and see if you have RPM. Do you have spark?

Looking at your power/fuse block I see a lot of grounds... the EFI system should be grounded back to block, usually 2 spots like a factory harness.

[EagleMark]

Having injectors serviced is always a good thing. But it's rare they fail and never put out to much fuel, they clog and put out to little.

MAP is going to intake vacuum port in runner.

One thing I see is his MAP location, they are super picky and should only be connected to the rear port of the TBI.

Fix that and you should be good to go?

What kind of adjustments have you made to the chip?