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Thread: Coil per cylinder 4.3?

  1. #1
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    Coil per cylinder 4.3?

    ok, so we all know the 0411 PCM is capable of CPC, and some of us know the 4.3 S10 also uses the 0411. The 4.3 doesn't use CPC though, it uses some kind of distributor setup, much like that of the 5.0 and 5.7 vortec engines. has anyone converted a 4.3 to run on a 0411 with CPC?

    wiring pinouts for the S10 and typical V8 0411(trans am IIRC).


    blue 2002 S-10 4.3 Typical V8 0411
    1 ground ground
    2 12v ref 12V reference
    3 - Fuel injector #3
    4 Fuel injector #4 Fuel injector #2
    5 - -
    6 - -
    7 - -
    8 5v ref -
    9 Knock sensor signal -
    10 - -
    11 - KS #2 signal
    12 Crank pos signal Crank position signal
    13 - Requested torque signal
    14 - UART serial data secondary
    15 - UART serial data tertiary
    16 - -
    17 Trans fluid pressure switch signal B Trans fluid pressure switch signal B
    18 Trans fluid pressure switch signal C Trans fluid pressure switch signal C
    19 IGN+ IGN+
    20 B+ B+
    21 Low ref Low ref
    22 - -
    23 Low ref Low ref
    24 - -
    25 HO2S low bank2 sensor 1 HO2S low bank2 sensor 1
    26 HO2S low bank2 sensor 2 HO2S low bank2 sensor 2
    27 - -
    28 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 2 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 2
    29 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 1 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 1
    30 Coolant level switch signal Coolant level switch signal
    31 - -
    32 Transmission range signal A Transmission range signal A
    33 TCC brake switch signal TCC brake switch signal
    34 Transmission range switch signal P Transmission range switch signal P
    35 CPP switch signal CPP switch signal
    36 Fuel injector #1 Fuel injector #1
    37 Fuel injector #3 Fuel injector #6
    38 - Damping lift/dive signal
    39 - -
    40 ground ground
    41 - Low ref
    42 - -
    43 Fuel injector #5 Fuel injector #7
    44 - Fuel injector #5
    45 - FTP 5V ref
    46 5v ref TPS 5V ref
    47 - MAP 5V ref
    48 5v ref EGR 5V ref
    49 Low ref -
    50 - -
    51 - KS bank 1 signal
    52 - -
    53 Low ref (RPO M30 only) Low reference
    54 Low ref Low reference
    55 - EGR valve position signal
    56 - -
    57 B+ B+
    58 Class II serial Class II serial
    59 Class II serial Class II serial
    60 Low ref Low ref
    61 Low ref Low ref
    62 - -
    63 HO2S low ref Low ref
    64 - -
    65 - HO2S high signal bank 2 sensor 2
    66 HO2S High signal HO2S high signal bank 2 sensor 1
    67 - -
    68 HO2S high signal HO2S high signal bank 1 sensor 2
    69 HO2S high signal HO2S high signal bank 1 sensor 1
    70 - Oil level switch
    71 - -
    72 Trans range switch signal B Trans range switch signal B
    73 Cam position signal Cam position signal
    74 ECT signal ECT signal
    75 B+(RPO M30 only) B+
    76 Fuel injector #3 Fuel injector #5
    77 Fuel injector #6 Fuel injector #8
    78 - -
    79 3-2 shift solenoid control 3-2 shift solenoid control
    80 Low ref Low ref




    Red 2002 S-10 4.3 Typical V8 0411
    1 Ground Ground
    2 TCC PWM solenoid control TCC PWM solenoid control
    3 - Secondary fuel pump relay control
    4 - -
    5 - Delivered torque signal
    6 PC solenoid high control (A) PC solenoid high control (A)
    7 - EGR supply voltage
    8 PC solenoid low control(A) PC solenoid low control(A)
    9 Primary fuel pump relay control Primary fuel pump relay control
    10 Engine speed signal Engine speed signal
    11 - AC high pressure recirc switch signal
    12 - -
    13 Cruise status Cruise status
    14 - -
    15 Generator turn on signal Charge indicator control
    16 4wd low signal 4wd low signal
    17 AC request AC request
    18 - -
    19 Axle switch signal Axle switch signal
    20 VSS low VSS low
    21 VSS high VSS high
    22 - ISS high
    23 - ISS low
    24 TPS signal -
    25 IAT signal IAT signal
    26 IC timing signal Coil 1 control
    27 - Coil 7 control
    28 -- Coil 6 control
    29 - Coil 4 control
    30 - -
    31 MAF signal MAF signal
    32 MAP signal MAP signal
    33 - Recirc actuator control
    34 EVAP purge control EVAP purge control
    35 - -
    36 - AIR pump relay
    37 - -
    38 - -
    39 12V ref 12V ref
    40 ground ground
    41 - EGR solenoid control
    42 TCC solenoid control TCC solenoid control
    43 AC relay control AC relay control
    44 - -
    45 EVAP vent control EVAP vent control
    46 SES light SES light
    47 2-3 shift solenoid 2-3 shift solenoid
    48 1-2 shift solenoid 1-2 shift solenoid
    49 Vehicle speed signal Vehicle speed signal
    50 VSS signal VSS signal
    51 Trans fluid temp signal Trans fluid temp signal
    52 Generator field duty cycle signal Generator field duty cycle signal
    53 - -
    54 Low ref Fuel level signal(primary)
    55 AC low pressure switch signal AC low pressure switch signal
    56 - -
    57 Low ref Low ref
    58 - -
    59 - -
    60 - Low ref
    61 - Low ref
    62 Trans range switch signal C Trans range switch signal C
    63 Trans pressure switch signal A Trans pressure switch signal A
    64 STP pressure signal STP pressure signal
    65 - -
    66 - Coil 8 control
    67 - Coil 2 control
    68 - Coil 5 control
    69 - Coil 3 control
    70 - -
    71 - -
    72 HO2S heater low control bank 2 sensor 1 HO2S heater low control bank 2 sensor 1
    73 - Fuel level signal (secondary)
    74 HO2S heater high control bank 2 sensor 1 HO2S heater high control bank 2 sensor 1
    75 - -
    76 IAC coil B high control IAC coil B high control
    77 IAC coil B low control IAC coil B low control
    78 IAC coil A low control IAC coil A low control
    79 IAC coil A high control IAC coil A high control
    80 HO2S heater low ref Low ref


  2. #2
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    I remember asking about this one time in the past. I was thinking about using a 411 to run a jeep 4.0 engine, and was wondering if DIS (coil per plug) was possiable. If I remember correctly, since it had never been done from the factory, it probably wasnt doable. Something about no crank trigger wheels and code to support it.
    I think if a person was smart enough and knew the code in the pcm well enough, I think it could be hacked and done. Maybe convert a V8 bin to run the 6cyl? Not sure if the V8 trigger wheel could be used or if a custom one would have to be designed and code written to use it.

    My guess is since there is such a low demand for doing this, no one has felt the need to do it. But I'm thinking if a TBI PCM can be hacked to run MPFI and use a MAF, then why couldnt the 411 be converted to run a 6cyl DIS?
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  3. #3
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    I was kinda figuring I would get a response like that. I would love to start learning the actual code and how to manipulate it. I will eventually, but I think I'm going to be a bit too wrapped up in school for the next year or two.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericjon262 View Post
    I was kinda figuring I would get a response like that. I would love to start learning the actual code and how to manipulate it. I will eventually, but I think I'm going to be a bit too wrapped up in school for the next year or two.
    TRUTH. Youre never out of upgrade long enough before you start another. Want a good EPR, there goes all your free time! LOL
    '86 Grand National

  5. #5
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    meh, I'll make it happen. might use the 0411, might go another route, like the shortstar PCM. we'll see.

  6. #6
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    The newer 4.3 used in the GMT900 trucks used 3 coils mounted in teh position where teh distributer sits. I'm sure you could wire it up to use either CNP (Coil Near Plug) like on tyhe LS1/2/3/4/7/9/A or COP(Coil On Plug) like is used on the Ecotec 4 cyls etc.
    Here is the 2007+ LU3 4.3 with the 3 coils and long high tension wires


    Here is the 2007 and earlier 4.3 with crab style distributer used in the GMT 400 and GMT 800 trucks. Uses a single coil.


    Here is the brand new Direct Injection Ecotec 4.3 used in teh new 2014+trucks, as you cans ee it uses CNP ignition with the short high tension wires


    peace
    Hog

  7. #7
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    I should have been more specific and said using the 0411 PCM.

  8. #8
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    With those being DIS, there is definately a crank trigger wheel made for them. The only problem I see would be getting the 411 to work with that trigger wheel.
    I'm thinking 4.3 bin from the 01-02 range (for a 411 pcm) would probably be way different than a bin for the same year V8 with DIS. So I am wondering if it would be easyer to mod a V8 bin, and alter the number of cylinders it fires and the number of pulses it see from the crank trigger, than it would be to try and make a distributor bin work with dis?
    However it goes, it would take someone way smarter than me to do it.
    Last edited by JeepsAndGuns; 08-07-2013 at 04:32 PM.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  9. #9
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Hog always has the sexy pictures!

    Somewhere we talked about this before to run COP with the 5.7L Vortec engine (96,97,98,99,00) 0411 conversion.

    In EFI Live and TunerCat there are Vehicle Platform Options and the LS engine like Camaro and newer Trucks have Low Res Crank marked No. The Vortec calibration that comes with distributor is marked Yes!

    Just not sure what the Low Res Option is for?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  10. #10
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    I guess the answer is in the new book?

    the different ignition systems (with high and low resolution crank/cam signals)
    http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...px?ItemId=1240

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  11. #11
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    I just ordered the book, probably a good read even if it doesn't outline what I need to know.

  12. #12
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    thoughts?

    I looked at which injector pins went to what cylinders between the two pinouts, and then match the coils.



    blue 2002 S-10 4.3 Typical V8 0411 Coil per cylinder 4.3?
    1 ground ground ground
    2 12v ref 12V reference 12v ref
    3 - Fuel injector #3 -
    4 Fuel injector #4 Fuel injector #2 Fuel injector #4
    5 - - -
    6 - - -
    7 - - -
    8 5v ref - 5v ref
    9 Knock sensor signal - Knock sensor signal
    10 - - -
    11 - KS #2 signal -
    12 Crank pos signal Crank position signal Crank pos signal
    13 - Requested torque signal -
    14 - UART serial data secondary -
    15 - UART serial data tertiary -
    16 - - -
    17 Trans fluid pressure switch signal B Trans fluid pressure switch signal B Trans fluid pressure switch signal B
    18 Trans fluid pressure switch signal C Trans fluid pressure switch signal C Trans fluid pressure switch signal C
    19 IGN+ IGN+ IGN+
    20 B+ B+ B+
    21 Low ref Low ref Low ref
    22 - - -
    23 Low ref Low ref Low ref
    24 - - -
    25 HO2S low bank2 sensor 1 HO2S low bank2 sensor 1 HO2S low bank2 sensor 1
    26 HO2S low bank2 sensor 2 HO2S low bank2 sensor 2 HO2S low bank2 sensor 2
    27 - - -
    28 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 2 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 2 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 2
    29 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 1 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 1 HO2S low signal bank 1 sensor 1
    30 Coolant level switch signal Coolant level switch signal Coolant level switch signal
    31 - - -
    32 Transmission range signal A Transmission range signal A Transmission range signal A
    33 TCC brake switch signal TCC brake switch signal TCC brake switch signal
    34 Transmission range switch signal P Transmission range switch signal P Transmission range switch signal P
    35 CPP switch signal CPP switch signal CPP switch signal
    36 Fuel injector #1 Fuel injector #1 Fuel injector #1
    37 Fuel injector #3 Fuel injector #6 Fuel injector #3
    38 - Damping lift/dive signal -
    39 - - -
    40 ground ground ground
    41 - Low ref -
    42 - - -
    43 Fuel injector #5 Fuel injector #7 Fuel injector #5
    44 - Fuel injector #5 -
    45 - FTP 5V ref -
    46 5v ref TPS 5V ref 5v ref
    47 - MAP 5V ref -
    48 5v ref EGR 5V ref 5v ref
    49 Low ref - Low ref
    50 - - -
    51 - KS bank 1 signal -
    52 - - -
    53 Low ref (RPO M30 only) Low reference Low ref (RPO M30 only)
    54 Low ref Low reference Low ref
    55 - EGR valve position signal -
    56 - - -
    57 B+ B+ B+
    58 Class II serial Class II serial Class II serial
    59 Class II serial Class II serial Class II serial
    60 Low ref Low ref Low ref
    61 Low ref Low ref Low ref
    62 - - -
    63 HO2S low ref Low ref HO2S low ref
    64 - - -
    65 - HO2S high signal bank 2 sensor 2 -
    66 HO2S High signal HO2S high signal bank 2 sensor 1 HO2S High signal
    67 - - -
    68 HO2S high signal HO2S high signal bank 1 sensor 2 HO2S high signal
    69 HO2S high signal HO2S high signal bank 1 sensor 1 HO2S high signal
    70 - Oil level switch -
    71 - - -
    72 Trans range switch signal B Trans range switch signal B Trans range switch signal B
    73 Cam position signal Cam position signal Cam position signal
    74 ECT signal ECT signal ECT signal
    75 B+(RPO M30 only) B+ B+(RPO M30 only)
    76 Fuel injector #3 Fuel injector #5 Fuel injector #3
    77 Fuel injector #6 Fuel injector #8 Fuel injector #6
    78 - - -
    79 3-2 shift solenoid control 3-2 shift solenoid control 3-2 shift solenoid control
    80 Low ref Low ref Low ref




    Red 2002 S-10 4.3 Typical V8 0411 2002 S-10 4.3
    1 Ground Ground Ground
    2 TCC PWM solenoid control TCC PWM solenoid control TCC PWM solenoid control
    3 - Secondary fuel pump relay control -
    4 - - -
    5 - Delivered torque signal -
    6 PC solenoid high control (A) PC solenoid high control (A) PC solenoid high control (A)
    7 - EGR supply voltage -
    8 PC solenoid low control(A) PC solenoid low control(A) PC solenoid low control(A)
    9 Primary fuel pump relay control Primary fuel pump relay control Primary fuel pump relay control
    10 Engine speed signal Engine speed signal Engine speed signal
    11 - AC high pressure recirc switch signal -
    12 - - -
    13 Cruise status Cruise status Cruise status
    14 - - -
    15 Generator turn on signal Charge indicator control Generator turn on signal
    16 4wd low signal 4wd low signal 4wd low signal
    17 AC request AC request AC request
    18 - - -
    19 Axle switch signal Axle switch signal Axle switch signal
    20 VSS low VSS low VSS low
    21 VSS high VSS high VSS high
    22 - ISS high -
    23 - ISS low -
    24 TPS signal - TPS signal
    25 IAT signal IAT signal IAT signal
    26 IC timing signal Coil 1 control Coil 1 control
    27 - Coil 7 control Coil 5 control
    28 -- Coil 6 control Coil 3 control
    29 - Coil 4 control Coil 2 control
    30 - - -
    31 MAF signal MAF signal MAF signal
    32 MAP signal MAP signal MAP signal
    33 - Recirc actuator control -
    34 EVAP purge control EVAP purge control EVAP purge control
    35 - - -
    36 - AIR pump relay -
    37 - - -
    38 - - -
    39 12V ref 12V ref 12V ref
    40 ground ground ground
    41 - EGR solenoid control -
    42 TCC solenoid control TCC solenoid control TCC solenoid control
    43 AC relay control AC relay control AC relay control
    44 - - -
    45 EVAP vent control EVAP vent control EVAP vent control
    46 SES light SES light SES light
    47 2-3 shift solenoid 2-3 shift solenoid 2-3 shift solenoid
    48 1-2 shift solenoid 1-2 shift solenoid 1-2 shift solenoid
    49 Vehicle speed signal Vehicle speed signal Vehicle speed signal
    50 VSS signal VSS signal VSS signal
    51 Trans fluid temp signal Trans fluid temp signal Trans fluid temp signal
    52 Generator field duty cycle signal Generator field duty cycle signal Generator field duty cycle signal
    53 - - -
    54 Low ref Fuel level signal(primary) Low ref
    55 AC low pressure switch signal AC low pressure switch signal AC low pressure switch signal
    56 - - -
    57 Low ref Low ref Low ref
    58 - - -
    59 - - -
    60 - Low ref -
    61 - Low ref -
    62 Trans range switch signal C Trans range switch signal C Trans range switch signal C
    63 Trans pressure switch signal A Trans pressure switch signal A Trans pressure switch signal A
    64 STP pressure signal STP pressure signal STP pressure signal
    65 - - -
    66 - Coil 8 control Coil 6 control
    67 - Coil 2 control -
    68 - Coil 5 control Coil 3 control
    69 - Coil 3 control -
    70 - - -
    71 - - -
    72 HO2S heater low control bank 2 sensor 1 HO2S heater low control bank 2 sensor 1 HO2S heater low control bank 2 sensor 1
    73 - Fuel level signal (secondary) -
    74 HO2S heater high control bank 2 sensor 1 HO2S heater high control bank 2 sensor 1 HO2S heater high control bank 2 sensor 1
    75 - - -
    76 IAC coil B high control IAC coil B high control IAC coil B high control
    77 IAC coil B low control IAC coil B low control IAC coil B low control
    78 IAC coil A low control IAC coil A low control IAC coil A low control
    79 IAC coil A high control IAC coil A high control IAC coil A high control
    80 HO2S heater low ref Low ref HO2S heater low ref
    Last edited by ericjon262; 08-09-2013 at 05:29 PM.

  13. #13
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Sure looks like a good start! My concern would be the code, not sure the vehicle platform change is going to work? This is new ground. Would be nice to have a test bench for this but then again you'll have a test bench when installed in the truck...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    Sure looks like a good start! My concern would be the code, not sure the vehicle platform change is going to work? This is new ground. Would be nice to have a test bench for this but then again you'll have a test bench when installed in the truck...
    I need a text bench bad... once I have a shop again, it'll be on my to do list. among many other things.

    FWIW, this won't necessarily be a truck, like all the other mix match parts I own, this would be going into the Fiero.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hog View Post
    The newer 4.3 used in the GMT900 trucks used 3 coils mounted in teh position where teh distributer sits. I'm sure you could wire it up to use either CNP (Coil Near Plug) like on tyhe LS1/2/3/4/7/9/A or COP(Coil On Plug) like is used on the Ecotec 4 cyls etc.
    Here is the 2007+ LU3 4.3 with the 3 coils and long high tension wires


    peace
    Hog
    This engine also has drive by wire and a returnless fuel system, just FYI.

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