Ideas for 4 cylinder MPFI = Toyota 22RE with GM ECM?

[EagleMark]

Cavalier DIS requires 60 deg reference angle. Be sure to install wheel at angle that matches DIS system or base timing will not be correct.

So number 1 cylinder TDC and crank sensor at 60* ?

Looks like the Quad Four 8708 will fire the low ohm injectors in truck. We will see if it works with 7730 four cylinder DIS.

Been pecking away on this project while the kid builds the 3 link front suspension for the Dana 60 and tube frame off rear for leaf spring dana 60 and a full exo cage.

We picked up a harness from Quad four car and some other parts.
Wiring harness $9.00
4 Cylinder DIS $21.00
8708 ECM $23.00
Pile of relays, fuses, distribution block and fuse able links $10
----------------------------
Total $63.

Got the hard end done and ready to bolt it to the truck and finish wiring. Distribution block was used because of all the other power he needs, it has a heavy fuse able link cable to starter as Batt is going to be mounted in bed.

[1project2many]

Wow... those are some cheap prices for those parts. Is that a scrap yard or Ebay?

You're testing me on the DIS, right?





This is notch positioning and event timing. The module will begin to fire when the second notch after the synch notch (marked #2) rotates past TDC. The DIS module doesn't care which cylinder it fires first. GM starts firing on cylinder 2/3 and I do the same in case I need to diagnose a problem. Set the wheel and sensor so the center of the notch is under the sensor at 60 deg BTDC.

[EagleMark]

I missed your post long ago, sorry and thanks for the help.

The local scrap yard here is very fair with prices when you pull, they don't allow everyone in to pull though. Even for those that must have parts pulled it's still almost Pull and Save prices and cheaper then eBay.

Looks like that would be fairly easy to set up if I follow you correctly. So notch 1 would be TDC #1 and sensor would be centered notch 2?

EDIT: Maybe not by the looks of your picture, I may have my rotation backwards.
Trigger_Wheel.jpg

Double EDIT from another post:
Can't seem to find any specs on what the space should be between a crank sensor and trigger wheel?

91 Quad 4 8708 ECM and sensor if it matters? Or are they all about the same?

[delcowizzid]

trigger wheel distance is a bit of trial and error between getting it to start easy and not miss in higher rpm.also a solid bracket is needed any harmonic vibration in the bracket screws timing a lot

[EagleMark]

Got a very sturdy, probably overkill bracket made but still don't have it straight in my head how to set timing? Number 1 TDC and put crank sensor at number 2 notch is 60*?

Got some work done this week and figured I'd put up some pictures.

Crank Sensor mounted in 1/4 thick 1" wide steel.


Timing cover and bolts are not flush so spacer is needed, this made it very easy to get close measurment and use washers to line up the sensor to trigger wheel perfectly.


Still not welded as waiting for advice on timing?


CTS went inplace of one of the three sensors removed from this location


IAT was simple to thread existing cold start injector hole.


Injector harness stripped from Toyota and rewired for GM


Used the Toyota TPS without IDL wire works fine.


ECM mount, relays, fuses, power distributution and some fuseable links. All JY GM parts. Start of EFI system wiring install.

[EagleMark]

Couple pictures of the beast Rock Crawler the kid is building. Dana 60 front on three link suspension, air shocks and bumps.

Rear is dana 70 on leafs with track bar, same as he had on other truck and had so much flex he saw no reason to change it. Rear disk brakes waiting install.

Dual transfer cases and rear driveline disconnect.

[Six_Shooter]

There is information here on GM DIS trigger wheel set-up: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/GM_DIS.htm

[EagleMark]

This is notch positioning and event timing. The module will begin to fire when the second notch after the synch notch (marked #2) rotates past TDC. The DIS module doesn't care which cylinder it fires first. GM starts firing on cylinder 2/3 and I do the same in case I need to diagnose a problem. Set the wheel and sensor so the center of the notch is under the sensor at 60 deg BTDC.

OK, let's see if I got this right? Motor is TDC #1, Crank Sensor is lined up on #5 Notch.

The way the Trigger is drilled I can not get an exact 60*, right now it is closer to 45*. If I go further the Crank Sensor mount (not yet welded to mount) would be over a bolt! I could change the CAD drawing and have another cut? I think the real issue is the sensor should be almost direct bottom of engine/trigger wheel. Which is not an option with this off roader!

In $8B which is all I have a bin for right now and looking for $A8... there is a "Spark Reference Angle" of 74.88* . Could this be changed to 45*?

Not sure where all the 60* bins are or what mask?

[Six_Shooter]

OK, let's see if I got this right? Motor is TDC #1, Crank Sensor is lined up on #5 Notch.

The way the Trigger is drilled I can not get an exact 60*, right now it is closer to 45*. If I go further the Crank Sensor mount (not yet welded to mount) would be over a bolt! I could change the CAD drawing and have another cut? I think the real issue is the sensor should be almost direct bottom of engine/trigger wheel. Which is not an option with this off roader!

In $8B which is all I have a bin for right now and looking for $A8... there is a "Spark Reference Angle" of 74.88* . Could this be changed to 45*?

Not sure where all the 60* bins are or what mask?

The problem is that the base setting for the crank trigger sets base timing, and should be 10* BTDC once everything is said and done on a timing light, which is part of the reason I like to make CPS mounts adjustable. ;)

If you don't set the hardware up right, you need to do as corvairnut has done and have the ECM take over spark timing at crank RPM, so that that timing relative to crank will be correct.

You can easily get this to work without too much work. The arm for the CPS doesn't need to be at a 90* angle to the base plate, you could make one that is mounted on an angle to the base plate but sets the CPS in the correct spot on the trigger wheel. It also doesn't need to be made out of bar stock, it could be shaped like an L or a banana, or many other shapes to get the base mounted and place the sensor where it needs to be.

Your best bet is to set up the timing as per OEM and then if you ever need to rely on LHM the timing will be near where it needs to be, and if there are any diagnostics needed, you can treat it like an OEM install then when it comes to diagnostic procedures and checks.

[EagleMark]

I can easily make a new arm for sensor off the mount, maybe even add adjustment?

But read this $A8 chip I have from 8708 ECM and it is the same as $8B at 74.88*... not 60*... so I need even more room? Or is this going to change because I am using the four cylinder DIS from 7730 four cylinder DIS?

[RobertISaar]

the 75* in the calibration is just when the ICM creates the signal transition, not necessarily the relation of the crank sensor angle. the value you'll need to use will be a dependant on the ICM that you're using. i assume GM would have kept the same angle for all of the 4 cylinders of a given era, but not necessarily.

[EagleMark]

IIRC the 7730 four cylinder it's 60* ? This is the ICM coils I'm using.

[1project2many]

GM does not keep crank angles the same. In 96 or so they added timing to the 2.2 crank. Probably because they'd re-designed to eliminate bypass mode and allow pcm to be involved in all spark timing. I do not know if the quad 4 engines have different crankshafts. I have never heard of this however, I'm not a Q4 guy. There are specifications for crank sensor to wheel distance. This value is called "sensor air gap." They are not the same for every engine. If you do not have those specs, setting spacing is a guessing game. You will get into trouble by bouncing back and forth between engine families. If you're using a 2.2 module you'll also need 2.2 sensor. Q4 sensor is lower resistance and will not work. Here's a method to set sensor position. Pick a cylinder to put at TDC. Rotate crank to 60 deg BTDC for that cylinder. Install wheel and sensor so sensor is over notch number one. Double check that double notch is one notch (60 deg) clockwise from sensor. If you install more than 60 deg BTDC you will advance base spark timing. If you install less than 60 deg you will retard base timing. At 45 deg you're trying to start with cranking spark at -15 deg. Not so good. Here's a good document with info on GM ignition systems: http://student.ccbcmd.edu/~smacadof/..._m09_Final.pdf. This combines what's in my older GM training manuals with some newer systems. Even the FSM's don't go into this depth. This book says the air gap should be .050" +/- .020". I seem to remember setting my Yota at .043" but that may not be the final setting.

[EagleMark]

If you're using a 2.2 module you'll also need 2.2 sensor. Q4 sensor is lower resistance and will not work.

Well looks like I'll be buying another crank sensor as the one I got is from the Quad FOur.

The 2.2 does not look anything like yours though? Be a pain to mount as well...

[dave w]

Well looks like I'll be buying another crank sensor as the one I got is from the Quad FOur.

The 2.2 does not look anything like yours though? Be a pain to mount as well...

I'm wondering if the resistances can be measured with an Ohm meter. Maybe an LCR meter is required to measure the crank sensor?

dave w