TBI, Tune, Engine Mods, Boost!

[k5nutt]

Azblazer from CK5. I have some questions for you. I used to wrench for a living before the oil field and specialized in electronics and A/C for Freightliner in phx for 11 years.
I have currently built a 90 jimmy as a back up work truck and toy. I need to make more power if i am going to keep the tbi set up so we did an msd dizzy....wires....tbody spacer....polished tbi with matched injectors. So...i realize the first thing we need to do is get the chip done right which takes a few tries after logging data to tweak things in. I did buy a tbi chips .com chip and it hoovered fuel so we put the stock chip back in. Being the Blazer chalet guy i realize before any chip tuning is done a slight bump up in cam (poss roller) and vortec heads will go a long way to getting the power i need for a brick with 4.88's and 35's to maintain the legal speed limit. I had what one would call a plus 1 cam in the chalet with no other mods and it ran like an ape so i am trying to run down that cam card...hoping it hasn't been lost. I would also like to ditch the problematic 700R4 for a 4L60e....

Next up...Moates has come up with a lot of goodies over the years so i'd like to know if there is an upgraded flash ecm ava these days which would make things alot easier. I never bothered to learn how to tune and will most likely rely on you for that as its a toy and i don't have the time to tinker like i used to pre oil patch days.

I also have a whipple tbi huffer in a box i am not going to be using...i would like to try tbi-superchargers unit as it may be the ticket to for go the cam swap. Any thoughts there?

DW

[EagleMark]

I also have a whipple tbi huffer in a box i am not going to be using...i would like to try tbi-superchargers unit as it may be the ticket to for go the cam swap. Any thoughts there?

DW

My thoughts are you should not use the Whipple and to save you storage space mail it to me right away!

Next up...Moates has come up with a lot of goodies over the years so i'd like to know if there is an upgraded flash ecm ava these days which would make things alot easier. I never bothered to learn how to tune and will most likely rely on you for that as its a toy and i don't have the time to tinker like i used to pre oil patch days.


DW

There's no flash solution for the 1227747 ECM but an easy way to do this I use all the time for remote tuning and guys capable of installing like yourself. The Moates Ostrich is an emulator and can be semi permanent mount to ECM with velcro, it has a ribbon cable to attach to ECM in place on chip. There are switches inside to run 24 or 28 pin chips so no other adapters are needed in the ECM. Then a USB cable to your laptop. This way I can email you bin files to upload. No chips needed. You basically run the chip/bin file from TunerPro RT on your laptop. If you stop emulation the Ostrich runs your truck off last upload so it still works without a laptop. When your all done (won't happen once you get involved) put in the final chip and use the Ostrich on another vehicle.
https://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-th....html?cPath=64

Other then that all you will need is a data logging cable either from Moates or Robert here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...uy-ALDL-Cables!

You seem to have all upgrades and gearing in check. Of course a roller cam and Vortec heads are a huge improvement to engine if you go that route. But the TBI heads, slight cam with proper gearing for tires will do the job. Just depends on how much you want to do and when.

If you go the 4L60E then a ECM to PCM swap is in order. Been done many times and most of your EFI system stays in tack, then change ECM to PCM plugs, some wiring and poof! Newer PCM with E trans.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...out-Directions!
Still can use the Ostrich on this PCM as well with a G1 adapter.

[k5nutt]

Yes...the Whipple experiment didn't go so well. Whipple tech desk help is not very helpful and a tad bit snooty i would have to say.
Needless to say...said blazer was forced into service without tuning and i am quite sure fell victim to a lean burn failure....
I was thinking about just going with a tbi-superchargers.com unit...easier by far to deal with than the Whipple unit.

Ok.
1) Pm cable maker to purchase cable. (windows 7 friendly?)
2) Order Moates Ostrich 2
3) Buy TunerPro RT
4) Let the head scratching begin...lol.

On the 4L60E...

700's have always been very cable adjustment picky and the slightest oops can kill the tranny. Not a very reliable setup. Although i am thinking since i had to replace the govenor to make it stop forgetting to shift into 3rd...i'd be money ahead to order a Bow Tie overdives unit asap...

I'm guessing ordering said parts and trans next month since the ex is getting 12k outa my rear end on the first....should be the first round and go from there and see how things go....

Ok...TunerPro RT d/l'd and 39 bux paypal'd.
Went to Moates and ordered cable and ostrich.
Just gotta wait on the mail man....


DW

[EagleMark]

Ok.
1) Pm cable maker to purchase cable. (windows 7 friendly?)
2) Order Moates Ostrich 2
3) Buy TunerPro RT
4) Let the head scratching begin...lol.



DW

No head scratching! Only learning.

Seems you have some cash flow for this project so there would be another device that works well. Wide Band O2 sensor... for many reasons. Main one is to see AFR not going lean under WOT boost! These ECM/PCM we have been talking about have no boost adjustments, so 100 MAP is what you get for all boost. That said they work fine for these small boosts and stock/mild motors. Would be plenty to push the Chalet around without making it a race truck.

Let me know what Wide Band you'd be intresed in and I'll look at the controller and setup. Some are very basic and stuck with 14.7 to 1 reading, others can be programmed for the E10 fuel at 14.1... either way making them read Lambda is so much easier and accurate. After all they are Lambda controllers converted to AFR...

Somewhere beyond stock motor your going to need more fuel! So an adjustable regulator is first step, for the boost changing the intank pump to a TPI or =early model Vortec is a bolt in. Pumps look identical, just have more flow and pressure.

Another improvement is a Boost Retard control for spark timing.

[k5nutt]

I forgot to mention we installed a heated O2 sensor when all the work was being done as well.
I'll assume thats not what is needed....

I'll rely on your thoughts for the wide band...

I'll assume the TPI (30 psi) pump will be needed if i go with a cam / head / supercharger upgrade...i think what i have done so far is mild.
I have an adjustable psi regulator somewhere. Although i would like to look into a vacum operated unit as that would be more precise and help
in the mpg dept. I'm not sure but i thought older big block units ran some sort of vacum regulator.

As far as the 4L60E/4L80E equasion...if i remember right again...some where in a box at my buddies house is a harness and ecm from a 350/4L80E
combo from a 91 2wd 3/4 ton burb. The ecm was different and reminded me of the TPI mem cals...

Boost retard timing control equals boost only?
I have also ran MSD 6A boxes with mild success in the past. But...they always set a 43 i think while in flight (yellow light)....and make a hot restart a pita...so i am thinking about not going with a 6A box.

DW

[EagleMark]

The heated O2 helps stay in Closed Loop, especially with un-coated headers. Although if the tune is spot on you can't tell the difference when the Narrow Band/Stock O2 sensor cools off and goes Open Loop. Wide Band O2 is completely different and measures AFR/Lambda. This would have saved your engine that melted from being lean, it's the only way to know! Your spending money on lots of stuff... this is good stuff to own with what your doing!

What you have done now should be fine on stock pressure. Using the adjustable is still a good idea to get 13 PSI. More mods? More Pressure! Cam, Vortec Heads and a charger = bigger injectors = easier then then tuning the high pressures and easier then a vacuum regulated. TBI injectors are not in vacuum like MPFI injectors where the vacuum reference works well. Keep your eyes open for some BB 74 or 80 lb/hr for future reference.

The PCM from 1991 4L80E is a 1619740 $85, we can use that when you get to tranny change.

I don't like MSD boxs and there's no need for them with these new TBI systems. The spark is fine. Build a motor that should not be on the street and we'll talk?

The boost retard is just that, retards spark advance timing (which is needed under boost) based on manifold vacuum/pressure. What these kits do in the form they come is pull enough timing that it is not needed. But you don't have power/economy etc... when there is no boost because they already took timing out? They only do about 6PSI boost max and it seems to always have some down to idle. I lost the Whipple chip/bin I had but IIRC most of the extra fuel was added with PE = Power Enrichment tables do to PE MAP enable settings. Spark was near stock and all PE spark and adders removed. The 2 I've worked on here hands on were both done with stock injectors and fuel pressure and both had melted pistons? You can't add 100 HP without adding 100HP worth of fuel.

I great option for boost controlled ECM is Dynamic EBL! I didn't recommend it at first because it does not do E trans. Seemed like E trans was a for sure and boost was not? To run it and E trans you need it/ECM and a second PCM. There are GM PCM that were designed for boost. The small amount of boost from these chargers can be done without the extremes of boost control ECM/PCM...

We're kind of all over the place here and I hope I'm giving you good info? But maybe we better slow down and see what we have? What we are doing? What all plans are? Time frame?