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Thread: Read these plugs?

  1. #1
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Read these plugs?

    Trying to figure out what is going on here... besides what looks like some oil in a new motor, well 10K on it. Has never run right since build and a chip from... well you know that ones that never run right.

    Since the truck came with no knock sensor and the chip is in question he is mailing it to me. I'm really worried this is another 454SS timing table in a tow rig hauling 12k

    Average picture looks like the other 7. Worst is one cylinder. Here's the build.

    Truck is an 88 V30 crewcab dually.
    Engine is a MK IV 454 out of 1987 one ton dually, bored .030 over with Eagle forged steel rotating assembly, 6.385 rods, 4.25 crankshaft, and 10.2:1 Keith Black pistons. Engine displacement is 489ci.
    Comp Cams CB XM 270HR-12 camshaft.
    Edelbrock 60479 aluminum heads, Comp cams retrofit roller lifters, pushrods, springs/locks and roller rockers.
    Edelbrock 3764 TBI intake port matched to heads, no EGR.
    CFM technologies ported throttle body with Extreme EFI AFPR and pressure gauge currently set to 16psi.
    Westers garage flow matched fuel injectors. I don’t remember the injector numbers (I bought them Aug 2005).
    Walbro 255 ltr high pressure pumps in both tanks.
    Hedman Long tube headers with dual 2.5” exhaust.
    Turbo 400 transmission.

    Computer data:
    SERV. NO. 1227747
    Attached Images Attached Images

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  2. #2
    Fuel Injected!
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    wow thats running lean!
    '86 Grand National

  3. #3
    Fuel Injected!
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    Yep,needs some fuel.
    Looks like the ground strap has gotten pretty hot on the curve there as well?
    Alot of buildup for 10k.
    If it is a mailorder chip without data though the math is only as accurate as the info and application thereof.

  4. #4
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    White, black, oil, buildup? He's putting in a new set of plugs and O2 sensor for a re-read...

    Data does not help at all on these chips as it's always perfect!
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...LMs-every-time!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  5. #5
    Fuel Injected!
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    who's the hack that burned the chip with the min/max BLMs set like that?
    '86 Grand National

  6. #6
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    122/130 is doable when tuning, but it will take forever to correct a calibration that's running lean.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  7. #7
    Fuel Injected!
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    Holy crap,read the thread-is that the chip in this truck?

    To translate into OBDII it means that the fuel trims were set to always read correctly regardless,as 128 is dead on?

    Reminds me of back when I first started and didn't understand the computers much and wondering why I couldn't just set the stoich to 12.5:1 and just be done with fueling :)

    This was a professional tuner as well?

  8. #8
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    122/130 limits allow a maximum of 1.56% fuel to be added due to O2 sensor correction or 4.69% allowed to be removed due to O2 correction.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  9. #9
    Fuel Injected!
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    So considering a good fuel trim on OBDII is 0 long term and +/- 5% short term than yeah.
    Basically locked out long terms and set limits for short terms to only allow adjustment within specs,anymore than that won't show or get corrected thru tool.

    If the person is calling themselves a professional tuner and purposefully doing that then they are both defrauding someone and being a moral bag of dicks.

    Liars and thieves piss me off and this seems to be both at the expense of another's ignorance when they trusted the person as a business to get a job done.

    I have no issue telling my customers what I know,don't know or can figure out or not.
    When they still want my help, I find someone that does for them or do what I can within my scope.
    And it's never about the money,it's about the hobby.


    sorry bout the rant,too much coffee and been cooped up in house all day watching kid and ton of work piled up that I can't do but speeding thru my head.
    busy and bored.

  10. #10
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Playtoy_18 View Post
    Holy crap,read the thread-is that the chip in this truck?

    To translate into OBDII it means that the fuel trims were set to always read correctly regardless,as 128 is dead on?

    Reminds me of back when I first started and didn't understand the computers much and wondering why I couldn't just set the stoich to 12.5:1 and just be done with fueling :)

    This was a professional tuner as well?
    Yes 128 in OBDI is perfect like 0% trim in OBDII.

    Not sure what is in this chip yet I have not received it. The other thread is what happens on third adjustment to a custom tune from TBIChips.com...

    I'm sure I can make it run good, all the others were easy. I'm just spooked as I know what get's done to BB tow rigs and this one comes from factory with no knock sensor! Knock sensor retards constantly to max retard on other when towing. I've even got chips with retard taken out! When I get the chip I'll know more...

    So back to spark plugs... WTF?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  11. #11
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    Some things are just hard to get right without being there. There's a ton of heavy black carbon inside the outer shell, deposits on the ground strap, and it appears there is oil on the outside of the shell on the second plug. It does look like oil burning. It also looks like the plugs might be the wrong heat range for this engine although that's hard to imagine looking at where the center electrode is in relation to the shell. The scary part is all the little chunks or balls stuck to the center electrode on the wet plug. Every time I've seen that it's been accompanied by melted piston parts. That line on the center electrode of the first plug, where it's dark above and light below, looks like the "timing line" you sometimes see on the center porcelain. If it is then the timing's too far advanced by quite a few degrees. And it needs fuel...

    Is there a lead substitute additive being used? I see orange spots on one of the plugs. That additive can leave deposits on the ground side as well although it still looks like heavy oil burning on the one cylinder.

    If the engine's damaged you'll get the same story pretty fast with a new set of plugs.

    Is the engine owner going to try and add a knock sensor? Can we do leakdown tests?

  12. #12
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    The scary part is all the little chunks or balls stuck to the center electrode on the wet plug. Every time I've seen that it's been accompanied by melted piston parts. That line on the center electrode of the first plug, where it's dark above and light below, looks like the "timing line" you sometimes see on the center porcelain. If it is then the timing's too far advanced by quite a few degrees. And it needs fuel...
    I was waiting for someone to comment on the little chunks or balls stuck to the center electrode, I call them specs...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  13. #13
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    Unofficially... fly turds.

  14. #14
    Fuel Injected!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Unofficially... fly turds.
    thats what Grumpy called it in his plug cut write-up LOL
    '86 Grand National

  15. #15
    Fuel Injected!
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    I think I would wait till he runs another set of plugs before trying to tune it, looks like the plugs are to hot an some where in the calibration it is rich washing the oil off the cylinders walls, how are you going to tune it without basic timming an fuel in a data log? what is on his chip may not be what it is on a data log?

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