NEEDED: 16197427 5.7L Manual Trans bin

[JeepsAndGuns]

What ecm/pcm should those 5 speed trucks have? 6395?

[EagleMark]

BJYN in Cal Data shows 5.7L Manual 16197427 (superceded to BPSA and differant PCM 16156930) so I thing the BCC Lookup spread sheet is same database as CalData.

On BCCFind it says Trans Type= all/no listing just like the other one gregs78cam posted and he swears it came from an auto truck. CalData shows it to came from PCM 16156930 but it is in 16197427. So maybe GM did not had learned by then how to have a bin for both? By seeing 2 of these now I'd bet the 16156930 PCM is missing a few pieces needed for auto trans?

[JeepsAndGuns]

Sounds like the only way to truely find out is going to be inspect 94-95 350 manual trans trucks. Mabey find some way to sweet talk the owners to let you see what pcm they have, and read the bins.
I checked craiglist today, no 5 speed trucks of the correct year range in my area.

[gregs78cam]

there is that one at the car lot, I should go over there and "take it for a test drive"

[jim_in_dorris]

wow, that's an idea. It would be truly awesome to add that bin to the knowledge base. I would be willing to spend time looking at the differences between it and an auto bin.

[EagleMark]

Look in the other thread, there is a V6 Manual there and plenty of V6 autos around for $OD. No one has found a 5.7L manual bin yet, found some 7.4L manual for $OE.

[jim_in_dorris]

Mark that's my point, I know that there are 5.7L 5 speed trucks out there, I have personally looked at buying one, and if I had known that there aren't any documented BCC's for that combo, I would have convinced the owner to let me look at it anyways. If Greg can "test drive" the local truck at the lot, we may have a first. Even if it wasn't anything except a bcc, we would know for sure that that BCC belonged to a 5.7L manual truck. I would really like to see that happen, even though, as you point out, there are 4.3 5 speed bins available. Converting a 4.3 to a 5.7 bin isn't quite as simple are injector constants and cylinder displacement and # of cylinders, because i bet that 5.7 manual spark tables are different than 5.7 auto spark tables.

[1project2many]

Seems like we've got three threads covering the same thing! The 93-95 5.0 / 5.7 pickups used a C3 ECM. They didn't use the 7427 family pcm. I was in Montana at a GM dealership from 91 - 98 which is the heart of truck country at a time when these trucks were new.

Now here's a neat trick for yall. I grabbed a VIN from a craigslist ad listing on Google:

Dec 28, 2011 – 1995 Chevrolet K1500 Red Manual 5 speed - $5900 (Greenville) ... Vehicle Information. VIN: 1GCEK14K7SZ218078, Trim: Miles: 178000, Color: Red. Engine: 8-Cylinder 5.7L V8 TBI OHV 16V, MPG: Stock #: 071 ...

Then I headed over to the Delco TIS CalID lookup site (<- linky) and entered the VIN so I could directly access GM information for the latest calibrations. TIS asks the following questions:
Automatic / Manual (manual, of course)
Altitude / California / Federal / Export emissions (start with Federal)
then it asks
ECM #
16188910 BDUY
16188913 BDUZ
16188922 BDWB

So I now have three BCC options. If I were still at the dealer I'd probably know if any of those ecm part nos are current versions of the 7427 family but I can still head back to BCCFind and see if they're listed:
All of these cals are for the C3 ECM.

You can try this trick with other VINS. I don't know the extent of the database coverage. GM might have dropped support for some of the really old stuff.

[EagleMark]

Mark that's my point, I know that there are 5.7L 5 speed trucks out there, I have personally looked at buying one, and if I had known that there aren't any documented BCC's for that combo, I would have convinced the owner to let me look at it anyways. If Greg can "test drive" the local truck at the lot, we may have a first. Even if it wasn't anything except a bcc, we would know for sure that that BCC belonged to a 5.7L manual truck. I would really like to see that happen, even though, as you point out, there are 4.3 5 speed bins available. Converting a 4.3 to a 5.7 bin isn't quite as simple are injector constants and cylinder displacement and # of cylinders, because i bet that 5.7 manual spark tables are different than 5.7 auto spark tables.

I understand that but for me anyway it's going in an IH 345 engine, I have a tuned spark table for that engine, also a tuned VE Fuel table, but both are from 1227747. Point is it will be tuned anyways.

The differnces in auto to manual are huge and not always seen in available xdf/ecu files. May be they are in these new v250 $OD stuff? But there could be 100's of changes that have to match. Like IAC in auto, well driving an auto you touch gas pedal and stay there. Manual you accelerate, let off, shift accelerate rinse and repeat. Lots of differences in IAC logic not only for emmissions that increase when you decelerate but in ease of shift, which was a side effect of the decel valve on manual trans carb cars when they installed it for emmissions.

[EagleMark]

Seems like we've got three threads covering the same thing! The 93-95 5.0 / 5.7 pickups used a C3 ECM. They didn't use the 7427 family pcm. I was in Montana at a GM dealership from 91 - 98 which is the heart of truck country at a time when these trucks were new.

Now here's a neat trick for yall. I grabbed a VIN from a craigslist ad listing on Google:


Then I headed over to the Delco TIS CalID lookup site (<- linky) and entered the VIN so I could directly access GM information for the latest calibrations. TIS asks the following questions:
Automatic / Manual (manual, of course)
Altitude / California / Federal / Export emissions (start with Federal)
then it asks
ECM #
16188910 BDUY
16188913 BDUZ
16188922 BDWB

So I now have three BCC options. If I were still at the dealer I'd probably know if any of those ecm part nos are current versions of the 7427 family but I can still head back to BCCFind and see if they're listed:
All of these cals are for the C3 ECM.

You can try this trick with other VINS. I don't know the extent of the database coverage. GM might have dropped support for some of the really old stuff.

So your saying there was never a 16197427 5.7L manual? This is where my search started and was told there was in CA do to there emmissions regulations 5.7L needed the linear EGR valve so they needed the 16197427 type PCM. So CA would be the only palce to find one unless the CA truck moved cross country...

[1project2many]

Mark, I've never seen a 7427 + 5.7 + manual trans calibration. I listed all of the cals available for 7427 family and manual trans in the other thread. The only search I haven't done is for manual transmissions plus the early 6930 pcm number which I'll get to tonight if I can. FWIW when I went back through the TIS site and picked Cali emissions, it listed BDUY.

[EagleMark]

Search has been extensive so I doubt there ever was a 5.7L manual bin for 16197427 and $OD?

BDUY comes back for ECM/PCM 16196396 which I have no info on what it is or replaces?

So I guess it boils down to best starting point. 7.4L manual for $OE or 4.3L manual for $OD.

I am leaning towards 4.3L Man for $OD because it's $OD but engine constants are all filled in so I don't know how to check if it was TBI or CPI?

But engine design of old IH may be closer to 7.4L Man in $OE which was TBI...

Any choose will need to be tuned so I am just trying to start with better choice.

But don't want that to be an end to what has turned into an ineresting and informative thread.

[jim_in_dorris]

I headed over to moates and looked up the 6396 ECM, it is a $9A mask. They actually have the source code hack for BDUY. Even without knowing assembly coding, you could see all the table values for modifying a $0D file, It might be interesting to compare them. I downloaded the files, and may take a look at them this weekend. Since I don't own a truck with a 5 speed, I really don't need an XDF for it, but perhaps a need will arise for someone in the future.

[EagleMark]

I looked throught the TunerPro Lookup and I have a $9A XDF. it also says 2732 for the chip so I think that's back to a C3 ECM...

Just for refernce there is more on this subjct here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ration-Listing

[1project2many]

6396 is a C3.
4.3 truck manual cals sometimes did "funny" stuff with throttle follower hanging open long after clutch was pressed in and idle speeds higher than V8's. Not hard to correct, just good to know ahead of time.

I like 7.4 cals for old engines with big slow burn heads and large intake manifolds. I've even used a 7.4 cal as a base for a Jeep I6 with TBI conversion and it worked way better than original vendor's 4.3 based cal.