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Thread: More questions about closed loop operation and tuning software........

  1. #1
    Fuel Injected!
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    More questions about closed loop operation and tuning software........

    These are probably stupid questions that a search could easily answer, but my google-fu and patience are sucking today.

    In my other thread titled "woohoo"..., I mentioned that I got an eprom programmer and have loaded a prom with a modified bin.

    I was planning on runnning tunerpro and getting a log, but my laptop did not want to play tonight and ignored the usb ports. Vista blows arse.

    So I used my old toughbook with a serial port and a touch screen, which makes life so much easier when driving and wanting to look at different screens.

    I have two different programs on that one since it's 98 and it can't run tunerpro. WinAldl and Turbolink, Turbolink is more detailed and graphic oriented with a lot of information being shown in guage format as well as recording capability. (It seems that the preferred software to use here is Tunerpro, which I think is awesome, but my inability and lack of patience to use it is strictly the fault of the laptop I have, NOT the software.)

    First issue was WinAldl showing that blm cells updating, but nothing on the int tables. Worked just fine with the original bin. I closed Winaldl and opened turbolink, lo and behold, I see blm and int numbers changing. So, something must be going on.

    1st question: I should see changing numbers, both BLM and INT, when in closed loop mode, correct?

    Next, I set the EGR enabled water temp to 255, but see that may be incorrect. I set Min MPH for EGR to 105mph and EGR Disabled Under MPH to 104. This was to shut off EGR operation.

    2nd question: Should both number be the same, or does the ECM not care about gap between 104 and 105?

    Next up is regarding knock counts. Running the 2.8l bin, I was seeing knock counts in the 250 ranges and you could hear it. I backed the timing off and the counts dropped by about half. I installed the 4.3l prom with original bin and dropped the knock counts by almost 2/3. I then installed a prom with a modified bin and dropped the knock counts down to less than 8 total for the drive in, and this even included a stomp the gas at 60 for a few seconds.

    3rd question: What amount of knock counts is considered normal as I know that I don't see knocks from noises other than actual knocking.

    That's it for the moment.

  2. #2
    Fuel Injected!
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    regarding WinALDL, are you using the wide avg table? theres a way to select how you want to see the data(sample counts) with the tab at the bottom. using wide avg will save more samples, not sure how many though.


    regarding knock, IMO zero knock counts is acceptable. audible knock is really bad, but can still get knock that you cant hear. keep spark advance conservative while you dial in the fuel first. im sure you matched your base timing to the value in the bin first?
    '86 Grand National

  3. #3
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    Yes, I verified that the distributor is set to 0 degrees as it's 0 degrees for the "Initial Advance" setting in the bin.

    And no, I totally forgot about the drop down selections......

  4. #4
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    1st question: I should see changing numbers, both BLM and INT, when in closed loop mode, correct?
    Yes.

    From the EFI Dictionary:
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-p...ictionary.html

    INT = The short term fuel trim value is called the Integrator The value of the integrator varies above and below 128 with 128 being no correction. For example, if the Integrator is 135, the ECM is adding fuel because the 02 sensor is reading a lean mixture. If the Integrator is 110, the ECM is removing fuel because the 02 sensor is reading a rich mixture. Anytime the system is not in closed loop, the Integrator will immediately return to a value of 128 and stay there.

    BLM = Block Learn Multiplier. Block Learn Mode term is long term fuel trim. BLM value tracks the Integrator but has a delay. If the Integrator increases so does the BLM, but the BLM lags behind the Integrator. The higher the Integrator climbs above 128, the faster the BLM rises. BLM value affects the VE table by adding fuel above 128 and subtracting fuel below 128

    You really need to assure the EGR is off and get rid of knock counts, especially if you can hear knock! Plus you have an ESC test that will come into play on top of all these knock counts you have during PE!

    Code:
            ;---------------------------------------------
            ; ERROR 43
            ;
            ; ESC FAIL
            ;---------------------------------------------
    LD52E   FCB  0      ; 0 SEC ENG RUN TIME PRIOR TO TEST
    LD52F   FCB  120    ; Min time since run enable, (120 sec)
    LD530   FCB  235    ; PA count limit
    LD531   FCB  23     ; EST fail test period, (2.3 sec)
    LD532   FCB  20     ; TEST DURATION
    					;
    LD533   FCB  48     ; COLD LMT            
    LD534   FCB  39     ; HOT LMT
    					;
    LD535   FCB  128    ; 3200 RPM LMT
    LD536   FCB  195    ; 82.3 Kpa MAP LMT, (BPT )
    
                    ;--------------------------
                    ; SPK ADV TO FORCE A KNOCK
                    ;--------------------------
    LD537   FCB  23     ;  8 DEG, 1st PE MODE
    LD538   FCB  43     ; 15 DEG, 2nd PE MODE
    LD539   FCB  2      ; KNK ACCUM LIMIT
            ;---------------------------------------------
    Now if you were running $42 you could run the ESC Done patch and not have to worry about forced knock! And would have exact settings for EGR disable. Or continue to develop ways to do this in $4E...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  5. #5
    Fuel Injected!
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    Yes, I do want to eventually run the 1227747 ecm I have, but I am weak in the programming area and want to learn more before I go deeper and just start throwing stuff in the truck, if that makes any sense.

  6. #6
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Nope, makes no sense at all to use a rare and hardly documented ECM over one that is completely covered and used by everyone including aftermarket TBI systems companies for 20 years?

    Your engine never came with that ECM and there's no bin for it? Why start there?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  7. #7
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    if youre using a 4.3 bin for the 8062 its no different from using a 4.3 bin with $42 and a 7747. ive used that on my 3.4 with no real problems.
    '86 Grand National

  8. #8
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    My point exactly, but what he does not know is how much more work has gone into $42... we know exactly how to disable EGR without a guess or test and we know exactly how to disable ESC forced knock test. The disassembly is probably the best available as is the TunerPro XDF and ADX files.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  9. #9
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    Once I get my new toughbook set up and running, I'll get the 7747 ecm hooked up and going this weekend. This truck is my daily driver and am not really into risking anything at the moment.

    Please bear with me, I am still learning the software.

  10. #10
    Fuel Injected!
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    Mark,

    Is there a summary anywhere that lists and explains the mods to the 7747?

    Also, for whatever reason, I can not get TunerPro RT to recognize the cable. It once worked and no more. I've verified port settings and was using the same files as I did before when it did work.

    Ideas?

  11. #11
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Drivers? Here's a check list that has always worked for cable and TunerPro RT:
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...to-TunerPro-RT

    Is there a summary anywhere that lists and explains the mods to the 7747?
    What mods? Hacks for spark and BPW are built into XDF, disassembles are in info thread.. same chip as you've been using...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  12. #12
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    Got the Tunerpro to connect finally. Just decided to work.

    What I am curious about, for one, is the Highway lean hack. I want to know what that does before just implementing it because others have done it.

  13. #13
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Well first off no one should use it until their tune is in order!

    What it does is meets a few qualifiers like Min Coolant temp, Min MPH before it starts a timer in seconds, then enters Open Loop to AFR specified in Hiway AFR table and also add Hiway Spark advance to compensate for leaner mixture. It is turned off by a MAP setting if load is to high or if MPH drop below setting and goes back to Closed Loop.

    Hiway Lean Cruise should also use the ESC Done patch to eleimanate need for forced knock test to be done before entering.
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...on-1227747-ECM

    It's also covered in the ASDU3 disassembly done by Jimindorris:
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ull=1#post5476

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  14. #14
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    Thanks Mark, this is the kind of info I am looking for.

    Drove to town, about 25 miles to get a cf-29 toughbook with an actual working touch screen. I did get a data run with the Tunerpro on the other laptop I have and will upload shortly.

  15. #15
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    When and if your ever ready for Lean Cruise let me know. I've built a patch into new $42-1227747-V6.xdf actually several patches.

    What's a CF-29 Toughbook go for there and how much work do they need?
    I've almost dropped my Laptop a couple times, been flying off seat several times, lost one to a cup of coffee through keyboard... would love a new fast one but at $2500 I think an old slow one and my desktop replacement type laptop would work fine with wireless networking.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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