New to forum with fresh tbi install.

**damanx** · 03-18-2013

Update:

Since the fuel pump upgrade to 13 - 13.5 psi, I am now running on the rich side. It appears that I am not running as rich as I was on the lean side, but still rich.

I also could not remember exactly why I am running the 4.3l prom, other than the ve tables having closer adjustment than the 2.8l.

I believe that I remember reading that is the reason to use the 4.3 chip for the 3.4l engine.

Anyone else read that, or can comment?

Thanks!

**EagleMark** · 03-18-2013

Download TunerPro RT, get the right xdf, find the bins and learn to use compare! You'll have all the answers. If you need any help just ask.

**damanx** · 03-18-2013

Mark, thanks so much for your help.

One thing I wish I had done from the get go is to document why I was using certain parts........anyways.....

So, I went though a bunch of pages that I had bookmarked and got in touch with someone who seems pretty intimate with the swap that I have done and got some thoughts from him.

He stated that I should be running the 2.8l prom with the 4.3l injectors, not the 4.3l prom. He also stated that I might need to drop my fuel pressure a couple of pounds also. This should bring the numbers in even closer. I got the idea that instead of reprogramming to get close, hardware combination and fuel pressure seemed to work in his case.

In any case, I am very interested in tuning the chip, but would rather get as close to a baseline setting with the right combination of parts and then get into the tuning once no more can be done otherwise.

Still want to get a 4.3l throttle body though.

**damanx** · 03-18-2013

Alrighty, I drove in to work last night with the 4.3l chip in the ecm. I can't remember why I picked that one, other than thinking I might have read something that lead me to believe that would be the better choice over the 2.8l chip. I then changed out the 4.3l chip for the 2.8l chip and cal-pak to see what the drive home results would be. I will group the readings to show the 4.3l first and the corresponding 2.8l results after for each type.

BLM Wide Avg for 4.3l
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
800 0.0 90.4 99.2 93.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
1200 90.0 92.5 96.4 94.0 118.0 109.0 98.3 0.0 0.0
1600 90.0 94.8 90.9 92.2 102.3 103.7 94.6 95.2 0.0
2000 0.0 91.8 92.2 95.5 97.0 104.0 97.0 0.0 0.0
2400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 107.7 108.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

BLM Wide Avg for 2.8l
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
800 0.0 110.5 109.4 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
1200 0.0 117.1 117.8 111.0 123.0 122.0 127.2 0.0 0.0
1600 123.3 118.5 115.8 120.0 122.7 124.9 119.8 0.0 0.0
2000 123.0 113.0 110.9 114.6 121.0 122.6 118.8 0.0 0.0
2400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 126.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
2800 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 141.0 127.5 0.0 0.0
3200 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 140.0 0.0 0.0

INT Wide Avg for 4.3l
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
800 0.0 125.1 112.7 112.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
1200 126.0 123.0 117.4 128.0 131.0 126.5 138.6 0.0 0.0
1600 128.0 122.5 124.7 128.0 120.6 120.8 133.2 130.2 0.0
2000 0.0 122.3 122.5 126.8 127.5 117.0 120.5 0.0 0.0
2400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 113.7 107.3 0.0 0.0 0.0

INT Wide Avg for 2.8l
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
800 0.0 126.8 124.4 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
1200 0.0 125.1 125.9 128.0 128.0 141.3 140.4 0.0 0.0
1600 117.5 122.2 129.0 120.0 133.6 142.0 140.7 0.0 0.0
2000 115.0 118.4 126.4 127.5 127.9 133.7 131.0 0.0 0.0
2400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 138.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
2800 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 130.3 122.5 0.0 0.0
3200 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 119.0 0.0 0.0

O2 Wide Avg for 4.3l
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
800 0.000 0.473 0.454 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.091 0.000
1200 0.254 0.414 0.387 0.004 0.000 0.000 0.224 0.053 0.000
1600 0.277 0.422 0.378 0.450 0.588 0.575 0.566 0.326 0.000
2000 0.017 0.345 0.460 0.546 0.531 0.557 0.418 0.000 0.000
2400 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.844 0.506 0.645 0.000 0.000 0.000
2800 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.683 0.000 0.000 0.000

O2 Wide Avg for 2.8l
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.406 0.000
800 0.000 0.373 0.355 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
1200 0.000 0.525 0.300 0.004 0.020 0.250 0.004 0.000 0.000
1600 0.386 0.545 0.399 0.498 0.410 0.509 0.507 0.000 0.000
2000 0.573 0.607 0.492 0.522 0.599 0.585 0.589 0.000 0.000
2400 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.540 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
2800 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.672 0.745 0.000 0.000
3200 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.645 0.000 0.000

Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like I am even closer to stoich with the 2.8l chip than the 4.3l.

Will still have to tweak more, but maybe dropping the fuel pressure about a pound?

**EagleMark** · 03-18-2013

Originally Posted by damanx

He stated that I should be running the 2.8l prom with the 4.3l injectors, not the 4.3l prom. He also stated that I might need to drop my fuel pressure a couple of pounds also. This should bring the numbers in even closer. I got the idea that instead of reprogramming to get close, hardware combination and fuel pressure seemed to work in his case.

You can cheat a bunch of different ways to get numbers you want. Not something we've ever done here, we tune them properly!

The data your posting looks like from WinALDL? That's a very small amount of data, we've already proven BLM numbers in WinALDL can be perfect! Yet same data in TunerPro RT will show big problems! So right now your shooting for numbers you want by cheating tuning properly and even if you get them where it makes you happy? There still wrong, it won't be running right.

Adjusting fuel pressure down is exactly opposite of anything productive to TBI running better?

If you have a cable you can use it with TUnerPRo RT, no restrictions, you can pay the $39 later and we all wish you would. It keeps everyone in updated software that is comparable to or better then $900 software. Then you can get better data logs now and still be able to work on bins in same program.

Not sure how much work has been done on your ECM files $4E, but I believe a 1227747 will plug into that harness like other ECM do. I've done a ton of work on $42 files.

**damanx** · 03-19-2013

I can only assume that the files are original because the ecm/chips were pulled from stock vehicles.

Pardon me if I don't understand how using a chip with parameters that fall seem to fall into place closer than another is considered "cheating", or, using a combination of parts is either. I don't believe that this chip and combination of parts currently being used is the final setup, but I don't think that saying it's not proper applies either.

I have TunerproRT on my laptop but am not familiar with it enough to know what needs to be set up to simply record what is going on, but, what needs to be recorded and for how long, and I'll share the data? I've not had enough time to play with this software, but will do so in the effort to get my truck running properly.

**EagleMark** · 03-19-2013

TunerPro is just as easy as WInAldl, just load the ADX file to record data. Cable and connect, record, stop will prompt you to save data log with file. Not hard, just different.

Cable installation if you have issues.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...to-TunerPro-RT

TunerPro beginner read:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-a-must-read!-)

If you want to tune you'll be glad you did!

**damanx** · 03-19-2013

Oh trust me, I can't wait to get into and do this sort of thing.

You will have to excuse me as I did take offense to the "cheating" comment. I can't say that is what you meant, but it's how I interpreted it. I took offense because of the amount of work I have put into this truck and engine. More time than necessary to be honest, and I am still pursuing it, which I don't think someone simply "cheating" would do. I am taking what is available at the time to me and trying to find the optimum hardware setup, then moving on to the software side.

When you say ADX file, what exactly are you referring to? I do have the $4e adx file loaded, or it seems that it loads by default since I opened the last time I played with this software.

Does the bin file that is loaded make any difference? I don't have the ACHT bin and can't find it online if it does.

And yes, I will be searching the Tunerpro forums to get a better understanding.

**EagleMark** · 03-19-2013

Originally Posted by damanx

Pardon me if I don't understand how using a chip with parameters that fall seem to fall into place closer than another is considered "cheating", or, using a combination of parts is either. I don't believe that this chip and combination of parts currently being used is the final setup, but I don't think that saying it's not proper applies either.

What your doing is trying to get fuel trim data you like to see.

In your spot I'd probably do the same so I could drive until I could build a chip/bin file right.

Let's look at where a chip calibration starts.

Engine size in Cylinder volume and Injector size. This is the starting point of all fueling routines. After that only everything is different.

I'm not familiar with the engine you have or the 2.8 or 4.3... but there's always Spark Advance. Different engines need different tables. This may explain why you posted this?

The other thing I am curious about is wondering what the timing is supposed to be doing, I have a timing analyzer that I had hooked up at if I recall correctly, it was running about 40 degrees at 2k rpm at cruise.

If I had 40 degrees advance at cruise speed I would stop.

2.8, 3.4 and 4.3 question? Which knock sensor and ESC do you have? Do they match the engine? Which chip has the right settings for the knock sensor and ESC you have? Is your knock working properly?

Does your engine have EGR? is it still on in chip? This changes all fueling and spark when active. What else does the chip have that you do not? How many error codes are set? How does each error code effect the way the ECM runs?

EFI is forgiving and also has backup. You could just leave the chip out and drive it too!

You have a cool truck! You seem to be a GearHead just like us! I'd like to see you do this right and really enjoy vehicles like we all do.

**EagleMark** · 03-19-2013

Originally Posted by damanx

Oh trust me, I can't wait to get into and do this sort of thing.

You will have to excuse me as I did take offense to the "cheating" comment. I can't say that is what you meant, but it's how I interpreted it. I took offense because of the amount of work I have put into this truck and engine. More time than necessary to be honest, and I am still pursuing it, which I don't think someone simply "cheating" would do. I am taking what is available at the time to me and trying to find the optimum hardware setup, then moving on to the software side.

When you say ADX file, what exactly are you referring to? I do have the $4e adx file loaded, or it seems that it loads by default since I opened the last time I played with this software.

Does the bin file that is loaded make any difference? I don't have the ACHT bin and can't find it online if it does.

And yes, I will be searching the Tunerpro forums to get a better understanding.

No one here will ever make a comment meant as an personal insult. Not that you are cheating, but what your doing is cheating/wrong/not right, you have been steered wrong, there is a right way.

Bin file makes no difference right now for data logging. We'll find you something correct. Just use anything to get used to software for now.

**damanx** · 03-19-2013

Mark,

Specs on the engine are as follows:

3.4L engine from a 93 firebird with 120k on the clock.
No EGR system as I am running an Edelbrock intake that has the provision for EGR if using the 2 barrel carb adapter.
The ECM, throttle body, esc, map sensor are all from the 1988 s10 w/2.8l engine that I pulled it all from.
The knock sensor, I don't know for sure, but guessing right now, it's probably the one from the 3.4l block. I'd have to check the p/n on it.
The injectors are from a 4.3l TBI.

The only code being set is the 32 for the egr failure, which appears after several seconds at cruise speed in closed loop.

Other than that code, and even with only that code, the truck seems to run very well considering. Starts up just fine and drives just fine. Actually, truth be told, it's running better now than it did with the Holley 390cfm carb I had on it.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

I have to make a quick, well not real quick, run to the post office. I'll be able to run this tunerpro and post some info from that in a bit.

(On a side note, I am not holding any grudges or anything for the offense I took, but I don't consider it "cheating" anymore than essentially rewriting software to get it to do what you want, i.e. turning off egr completely so the ecu doesn't set a code seems to be more along the lines of "cheating" for example. Well, I guess I am since I want this system to work without the EGR since I am not using the stock intake.......)

**damanx** · 03-19-2013

This is the csv export for the 1st test run with TunerProRT.

**EagleMark** · 03-19-2013

Those help a lot when doing spreadsheets.

But for diagnosing or looking for glitches in tune we need the XDL file you used to export...

**damanx** · 03-19-2013

Here you go, the xdl file.

The real driving time starts at 3:59. At 5:30, I came to a light.

Looks like I have a lot of knocking going on or something there. There appears to be a climb in value between 25-40mph.

I'm liking this software so far, but too bad my laptop gives me fits with the usb port. (vista issue i've had for a long time.)