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Thread: My Dual TBI Camaro Project

  1. #61
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Re: My project

    Quote Originally Posted by Six_Shooter
    At WOT, the O2 feedback is not applied, but if the BLM is below 128 before entering WOT, that value is used for WOT fueling.
    Is that for all ECMs?

    I don't know what the exact procedure is for WOT but have read some conversations on TGO were some of the most experianced EFI guys argue that O2 is used and some that say it is not used.

    From my humble opinion I beleive you are correct but the BLM value just before WOT is used to calculate the AFR commanded before entering PE. Right? You have to enter PE at WOT.

    NOTE to Greg: I left you a message on your phone. Also got your PM a day late? Now I have responded to your PM but they are stuck in my outbox not sent and I can't figure out why....

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  2. #62
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Re: My project

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark
    Quote Originally Posted by Six_Shooter
    At WOT, the O2 feedback is not applied, but if the BLM is below 128 before entering WOT, that value is used for WOT fueling.
    Is that for all ECMs?

    I don't know what the exact procedure is for WOT but have read some conversations on TGO were some of the most experianced EFI guys argue that O2 is used and some that say it is not used.

    From my humble opinion I beleive you are correct but the BLM value just before WOT is used to calculate the AFR commanded before entering PE. Right? You have to enter PE at WOT.

    NOTE to Greg: I left you a message on your phone. Also got your PM a day late? Now I have responded to your PM but they are stuck in my outbox not sent and I can't figure out why....

    As far as I know, all GM ECMs function this way. Like I said if the value is less than 128 before entering WOT, that value is used, but if it is above 128, then the value of 128 is used. I haven't seen any indication to the contrary from people that I would consider as "reliable sources."
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  3. #63
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    Re: My project

    Actually the way you explain it makes them both right. It uses it at first, then not.

    When Dimented24-7 and Rbob disgree or should I say have a differance of opinion it is a good thread to read...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  4. #64
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    Re: My project

    So as promised here are some close up shots of the installation. When I take it apart this winter to add an MAT sensor I will take some more pics of it.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  5. #65
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    Re: My project

    [attachment=2:142vu560]DTBI 008.jpg[/attachment:142vu560]
    Another throttle cable mount pic.

    [attachment=1:142vu560]DTBI 011.jpg[/attachment:142vu560]
    An overall view of the back of the setup.

    [attachment=0:142vu560]DTBI 013.jpg[/attachment:142vu560]
    You can see how I pieced together the air cleaner base from two and some scrap 20ga with a spot welder.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  6. #66
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Re: My project

    I'm told that an O2 sensor plug will thread into the TB, then just cut the pintle to length that it blocks the port when the pug is tightened.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  7. #67
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    Re: My project

    In the last pic above I spot-welded a 1/4-20 nut between the two flanges of the air cleaner bases to screw a stud into. I also put riv-nut inserts into the front bosses on the top of each throttle body to accept the 1/4-20 stainless bolts you see in the pic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six_Shooter
    I'm told that an O2 sensor plug will thread into the TB, then just cut the pintle to length that it blocks the port when the pug is tightened.
    Well, an O2 sensor is 18mm x 1.5, and an IAC is 20mm x 1.5 so I don't think that work???

    Anyways one last pic of the beast this engine is in.

    [attachment=0:3cewvd25]DTBI 004.jpg[/attachment:3cewvd25]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  8. #68
    Fuel Injected! gregs78cam's Avatar
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    Re: My project

    Well, I thought I should update this thread, so here goes.

    The car is running AWESOME!!!. I have been working 70+ hours for the last two weeks so not much tuning lately, just an odd datalog to work or back, and a few changes in the evenings. But really it is running so well now that I really don't even feel the need to go any further. I did put a 2" air filter on it and raised the back of the factory scoop so it would fit, and much like I expected it ran a little richer across the board, and shows a slight vacuum (compared to KOEOff). So I am leaving a little power untapped but I don't mind. I have been thinking about taking it back down to the dyno soon if funds permit. It is just so fun and comfortable to drive now.

    The other day my turn signal lever broke, so I decided to replace it with one from a '90 van with the Cruise Control switch in it. I made an adapter stub to mount it and will be running the wires down the column this week. Luckily when I was making the harness I included the cruise control plugs and wires and got the servo control of the van that the 4L80E came from. So i am one step closer to having cruise control on this thing.

    That is about all I have to add. Below are the .xdf, .adx, and .bin that I am working with now. I did add Trans Fluid Temp to the engine datastream, which is really nice to have now.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by gregs78cam; 02-03-2012 at 08:20 AM.
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  9. #69
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Re: My project

    and I got to see the car in person!



    If you dyno you can use my WideBand O2 Lc-1-AutoProm-Motes O-Meter...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  10. #70
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    Re: My project

    Cool. Thanks for the offer, but I already have my LM-1, and AutoProm hooked up. I think before I head to the dyno, I am going to work on a .bin that will lock the Trans in 3rd gear, and lockup the TC, you know so there is no slip and no kickdown when I hammer the pedal. That should make it a fair comparison to when I had the T-56 in it.
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  11. #71
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    Re: My project

    What kind of numbers did you get then?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  12. #72
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    Re: My project

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark
    What kind of numbers did you get then?
    Did you mean the last time I had it on the dyno? It was 340hp @5500, and 370lb/ft @3500 to the tires. If I get at least that much with the 4L80E then that would mean that the engine is actually making more than it was last time (hopefully due to the EFI) because I am SURE the auto is soaking up more than the T-56 was.
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  13. #73
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    I got the NBO2 installed and hooked up a few weeks ago, enabled closed loop and it ran pretty good. There were no lean spikes like before when running the simulated NB off the LM-1. It cruised nicely and I got some pretty good data out of it. However, I did a few WOT runs and noticed it going much leaner than I want. After watching the replay, I noticed that the BLM was pegged at 120, Desired AFR was right on 12.8, and it was still running in Sync mode, 29% DC, with lots of PW still unused. I have read about the WOTBLM Locker, and I am wondering if it is possible to implement something similar in $0E, if it doesn't have the ability already. Or the other option is to just fine tune the VE and SA in closed loop, then switch back to Open loop when done. Here is the log, and my ADX.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  14. #74
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    I don't even know how the WOT BLM locker works? It's a program you run on your $EE bin. Maybe if you download the program you can see what it does to figure out how to apply to your mask? Never mind it's all done in visual basic and C+ so can't see what any of the files are doing?

    Would be nice to know what it does in hex. Should be a performance option on any mask!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  15. #75
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    I just ran it on a bin then used the differnce tool in TunerPro and only 5 bytes are differant, Items were not defined and I don't have a complete dissesembly of an $EE bin.

    But thinking of this now I could probably add a hack to TunerPro to do this because of what you taught me!

    So for a guy who knows hex with dissembly, should be able to figure it out? If you go into PE or in EE case WOT and BLM are at 128 well you know the outcome. But like what's happening to you is going into PE at 120?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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