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Thread: A few random $8D questions

  1. #1
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    A few random $8D questions

    Getting readdy for my 7730 $8D swap exparament, I was prepping a bin and have a few random questions from parameters I went through.
    I decided to start with AXCN, which is a 5.7 manual trans bin. It shows as being for a vette 6 speed. I couldnt find a camaro 5.7 5 speed manual bin, only 5.0. Did they make a 5.7 manual bin for the camaro?

    Fuel cutoff engine speed.
    Its set to 10031.02 RPM. Seems really odd, but figured it was set to max to disable it. The slider is almost all the way to the left, and moving it to the right instantly changes it to super low numbers. Thats what's really strange. But I manually entered in the rpm I wanted it to be (4800) and saved it, and it seems to save it ok. So is this normal? I also noticed a fuel cutoff min temp. That was set to max, I'm guessing to basicly disable it. I set it to 0 to hopefully make it active all the time.

    CCP.
    There is a flag called 16 Hz CCP in use. Its checkmarked in AXCN/vette bin, but not checkmarked in AXXC/camaro bin. I am using the CCP solenoid from a 95 1/2 ton $0D truck. Should this flag be checked or not? Anyone know what the difference in the vette and camaro CCP is? I looked at the wiring diagrams for both and they are both wired the same, and also wired the same as my current solenoid. But I dont want to burn it or the ecm up by selecting the wrong setting.

    VSS.
    Will the 2kppm VSS I have now even work with the 7730? There is a flag for magnetic VSS installed. Its checked in the vette bin, but not checked in the camaro bin. I guessing leave it checked?

    I think thats it for now.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

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    rev limiter is normal behavior... the rev limiter is setup in the code to compare reference pulses, which require a 16-bit divide operation that limits the ability to easily "adjust" via sliders unless you were dealing with really low numbers(which you saw).... works fine if defining it manually. since it's based on reference pulse time, a different equation is needed depending on the number of cylinders in the engine.

    that flag chooses between controlling the CCP at a 16Hz or 32Hz rate. i'd do 32, 16Hz is a bit slow for my tastes. i don't know why GM ever included this as an option unless they used solenoids that didn't move very quickly, in which case 16Hz would make sense.

    VSS.... what kind of signal does yours produce?
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


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    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    There were no 5.7 manual Camaros produced from the factory.

    If you have an optical VSS or rather a signal that is the same as an optical VSS(which it should be), then leave it unchecked. The VSS signal in your case should come from a DRAC/VSSB as a single wire (brown IIRC), which would have the same signla s an optical, which IIRC is 5V TTL.

    I'd grab another XDF and see if the Rev limiter selection reacts the same. Sometimes XDFs are not set up in a way that is intuitive, or sometimes not correctly.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

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    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    I compared the vette5.7 and camaro 5.0 bins, both the rev limiters were set the same. Tried another XDF and it did the same. So I guess thats how its supposed to be.

    My currently installed VSS is the 2k ppm from JTR. #1 in the following link:
    http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Spe...eedometer.html

    But they list #2 for 90-93 TPI systems, saying squre wave and sine wave, ac and dc. Thats why I wonder if it will even work. The 7730 has two wires for the VSS, B9 and B10, with the colors matching the wires from my TBI harness (yellow and purple). However the old 7747, and my current 7427 only use 1 wire for VSS input with the other tied to ground. So should I connect both wires to the 7730 like in the 7730's wiring diagram and see if it works? Or will it mess something up.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

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    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    That should have the same characteristics as this sensor: http://www.painlesswiring.com/webcat...rchField=60115

    I have used this sensor in a vehicle that I originally installed a '7747 into, and then later installed a '7730 (Running S_AUJP).

    For the '7747 I tied one side to ground.

    I'm pretty sure that when the '7730 was installed I connected both wires to the ECM just like a magnetic VSS. It worked with both ECMs, just read half the speed on the '7730. Later the 2 PPR sensor was replaced with a 4 PPR sensor, for accuracy. It also helped clear up some return to idle issues as the truck was stopping.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

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    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    OK, I'll try it as is. I dont have a problem swinging the money for the correct one. But I didnt want to buy it untill I see how its going to run with the 7730. If the 7730 swap expariment goes good, then I'll buy the correct one for the better accuracy.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

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    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    IIRC there's an adjustment that can be made in the ECM, but it only affects the cruise and speedo outputs, and not internal calculations.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

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    i don't see why you couldn't swap some hardcoded values to allow a 2002PPM in place of a 4004PPM....
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


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    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    That would be kinda neat, and save me some cash. But I have bigger problems right now.

    I got it hooked up and running. It started out good. I drove around a bit to warm the engine up before I plugged up the 7730, just figured it might be a good idea so it would go closed loop faster and start correcting if the fuel map was off badly. It fired right up, connected fine, all data looked good. Idle seemed good, WB afr seemed good, so I took it for a drive. First thing I notice, the speed was not working. I figure no big deal right now, I will just get a little data and get started on the fuel tables and order a VSS later. I start driving and all is seeming good. I shift gears and it jumps WAY lean for a second before coming back to normal. This happens ever time I shift gears. I shift then star going again and it jumps up to anywhere from 17-19 afr for a second then back to normal. It also does this if I let off the gas and coast a bit, then hti the gas again to start going again. (I have dfco disabled for now). After a few miles I decide to turn around. It drops down and almost dies when coming to a stop, and holds a super low idle. Just barely stays running, about 500rpm. I figure it was just because of the lack of a working VSS. But after setting stopped for a few seconds, idle speed never comes back up. Also stall saver (if these even have it) does not seems to be working. After a bit of driving I notice what started out as what looked like normal afr's, has now changed to the 13.5-15 like my 7427 has been doing. I figure maybe it just needs the fuel tables tuned and I come back to check the log and make adjustments. Well, guess what? All the history tables are EMPTY! Not one bit of data in them, zero, nada, ziltch. WTF? I go back to my adapter harness and make sure I have the wired for the aldl cable correctly, and I do. So there must be a problem with the ADX. I am using the $8D-1227730-V1.1.ADX that we all worked on several months back. What would make the history tables not work? I was gonna try another ADX, but the only other one on here had no tables in it.

    So, no working vss input, possiable idle problem because of it, possiably still afr's all over the place, and a lot of tuning needed on the 7730 with no data to tune it, makes for a frustrating day. Hooked my 7427 back up for now.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    There's a known problem with the history tables in the later builds of TP RT V5. They haven't been working for me for a couple years now. :/ I would really like to get that fixed myself, since they can be useful.

    It doesn't sound like DFCO is disabled. What setting did you change to attempt to disable it?
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

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    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Wow, without the history tables, there is not really gonna be much of a way to tune it? Dont guess there is any way to get them working is there?

    I changed the DFCO min coolant temp to max.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    What do you mean no real way to tune it? I almost never use history tables to tune, I just like to look at some particular areas, like a pass at the track, but other than that, I just tune by what I observe.

    I think there is some fix, but I haven't looked into it, since I rarely use the history tables.

    IIRC there's a DFCO flag, observe that for DFCO.

    IIRC, what you did doesn't actually disable DFCO. Personally I never disable it, so I don't know of a sure way to disable it in $8D.
    I know I could disable DFCO in the code I use in my car, by raising the MPH settings for entering DFCO, so you may want to look into that.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  13. #13
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Why don't $8D history tables work? Mine work fine for everything else... well after I fix them properly, most are built wrong and don't fix amount of samples.

    They rough in a tune good if you do datalog without PE, DFCO, EGR and start log warmed up. To get better numbers need to strip out same data frames with spreadsheet...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  14. #14
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    It's more than just $8D.

    History tables were broken in TP RT V5 a while ago, and never seemed to have been fixed. The same $59 ADX I used that had working history tables stopped working when other people reported the issue occurring for them.

    Again, I see the use of History tables, but that doesn't make something untunable without them.

    I guess I can just account for those parameters while tuning...
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  15. #15
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Sure can be done without, way easier with for me... but I have yet to find one that I can not fix to work properly. Just fixed $0D to work properly, it worked but was not built the same as XDF fueling table, so data never matched table or spreadsheet.

    Never heard of the issue? Maybe just user error?

    Just got to do it right...
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...es-in-TunerPro

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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