Chips in a OBDII PCM?

[JeepsAndGuns]

You got it, get around cost or avalaibility of re-flash through OBDII port.

Still not knowing anything about OBD2 or flash chips. What makes it so bad to flash through the OBD port, that we are looking at removing the chip to flash it? Seems like your removing the need for buying a cable and software to flash the pcm, and instead making it to where you now have to buy a chip burner, cable and software.
I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I guess I am just not understanding whats going on.

[dave w]

Still not knowing anything about OBD2 or flash chips. What makes it so bad to flash through the OBD port, that we are looking at removing the chip to flash it? Seems like your removing the need for buying a cable and software to flash the pcm, and instead making it to where you now have to buy a chip burner, cable and software.
I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I guess I am just not understanding whats going on.

I've seen several LS engine swaps with completely stock engines in Off-Road applications. Many of these Off-Road LS engine swaps require the PCM be shipped off to someone for the Off-Road flash programming. I think a ZIF modified LS 0411 allows for a lower cost option, than shipping off the LS 0411 for Off-Road programming.

dave w

[EagleMark]

Your understanding the topic. Software to do OBDII is EXPENSIVE and then per PCM license fees.

Guys have already done an LS1 XDF for TunerPro, there are also ADX files being worked on. But uploading through OBDII port poses hardware and software issues, so if there was a chip! The Willems GQ-4X will write it!

[RobertISaar]

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/stor...supportICs.asp

willems 3 and 4 series supported devices list.

both the 512K and 1M chips are on that list.

[dave w]

Finding a surface mount ZIF socket in the PSOP 44 package to solder on to the LS 0411 PCM circuit board is a challenge! ... I'm still looking.

dave w

[RobertISaar]

hmm....

plenty of ZIF PSOP to DIP adapters out there....

it's kind of ghetto, but assuming no PSOP44 ZIF sockets could be found, most PSOP44 to DIP adapters could have the PSOP socket desoldered from them and use that.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Your understanding the topic. Software to do OBDII is EXPENSIVE and then per PCM license fees.

Guys have already done an LS1 XDF for TunerPro, there are also ADX files being worked on. But uploading through OBDII port poses hardware and software issues, so if there was a chip! The Willems GQ-4X will write it!

So if flashing through the obd port, you having to go through a bunch of other software in the pcm to "get to" the bin to be able to even read and write it? Where if you go right to the chip you can skip all that?
So basicly your getting rid of the need for the uber expensive software and the highway robbery per vehicle licence, and making it avalabe to be done with tunerpro and a chip burner?

[dave w]

So if flashing through the obd port, you having to go through a bunch of other software in the pcm to "get to" the bin to be able to even read and write it? Where if you go right to the chip you can skip all that?
So basicly your getting rid of the need for the uber expensive software and the highway robbery per vehicle licence, and making it avalabe to be done with tunerpro and a chip burner?

That is the goal, go directly to the flash chip. Some people have the surface mount IC soldering skills to desolder the flash chip, then read / write the flash chip, and then resolder the flash chip back onto the LS 0411 circuit board. The parts I'm hoping to find parts, would allow for desoldering the flash chip, then solder in a surface mount PSOP 44 ZIF socket were the flash chip was. This would allow for "Chip Swapping" like OBDI.

dave w

[1project2many]

I wouldn't get hung up on putting the ZIF on the board. The Moates header linked above looks like the proper pin spacing to use as a memcal plug. Remove the eprom and any other chips / hardware from the memcal and you've got a good socket to use for an adapter board. There's a guy selling adapter boards with the ZIF on Ebay for $20 with shipping but I'd bet you could find a solder type for less than $10 and permanently install the flash chip on the adapter. It'd be nice to find a DIP package flash that's compatible but it looks like the speed of those devices could be a problem.

The socket you see on most of the adapter boards is a "Test socket" and you can see it here:
http://www.enplas-ets.com/pdf2/sop_opentop_th.pdf
The number is OTS-44-1.27-03. Sockets aren't cheap though. Ebay vendors tend to be above $25 per socket.
Anyone want to share the cost? This brings them down to $9 each:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...ectorid=229466

Happy hunting.

[RobertISaar]

eh, i can see if this takes off where 15 probably won't be enough. :D

[EagleMark]

The RoadRunner Header is wrong spacing for Memcal.

Not sure what that origanal RR picture has a ribbon cable? Header plugs directly into RoadRunner Emulater board.

[1project2many]

That wouldn't be a bad thing.

[dave w]

I wouldn't get hung up on putting the ZIF on the board. The Moates header linked above looks like the proper pin spacing to use as a memcal plug. Remove the eprom and any other chips / hardware from the memcal and you've got a good socket to use for an adapter board. There's a guy selling adapter boards with the ZIF on Ebay for $20 with shipping but I'd bet you could find a solder type for less than $10 and permanently install the flash chip on the adapter. It'd be nice to find a DIP package flash that's compatible but it looks like the speed of those devices could be a problem.

The socket you see on most of the adapter boards is a "Test socket" and you can see it here:
http://www.enplas-ets.com/pdf2/sop_opentop_th.pdf
The number is OTS-44-1.27-03. Sockets aren't cheap though. Ebay vendors tend to be above $25 per socket.
Anyone want to share the cost? This brings them down to $9 each:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...ectorid=229466

Happy hunting.

I'm thinking of making an adapter board. I've done several PCA's for my employer over the last few years. I have experience with Gerber Files. I'll post up some pics of the "obsolete" boards I've done, so I don't to get into trouble! I'm thinking I can make a board that will hold the ZIF socket, then have a dip header soldered onto the LS 0411 board so the adapter board can be soldered to the header. It might make be worth looking at using a PLCC 44 chip to keep costs down and parts availability up? Anything is possible with Gerber Files!

dave w

[1project2many]

Security might be an issue on later vehicles. I tend to think of the earlier trucks but really everything should be considered. If VIN and other relevant info is stored in the flash then a read / copy operation might take care of it. Unfortunately this gets beyond my experience level. If we get this working though I'm going to have to start gathering bunches of new training material.

Dave, the PLCC chips I looked at could be too slow. If I read the data sheets correctly, the Intel chips had access speeds of approximately 60-80ns while the older technology chips were in the 120ns range. If the processor cannot get data or fetch code quickly enough you run into problems and a crash could result. But I only had a couple of minutes during lunch so I probably missed more than I found in terms of chips. The socketed board with header would be cool for development and tuning but long range, for a customer, is there anything wrong with soldering the flash to the board other than the difficulty of soldering? Is the cost difference worth the work? And please don't get into trouble posting work related files. If nothing else, remove pertinent details or post files with errors. Your work will show through without fear of the design being put into use.