Tuning restrictions coming for software makers.

[RobertISaar]

well, black smoke is a telltale of a LOT of unburned fuel....(in gas engines anyways, i assume diesel as well? my diesel experience is failing me at the moment)

to some degree it's necessary to keep combustion chamber temps under control when under heavy load, but to the extent that they're going, they're sending a BUNCH of raw fuel out of the exhaust.... idiots. i've seen enough diesels with "smoker" tunes myself. i'm kind of amazed it took this long for the hammer to fall.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Yea, same for diesel, black smoke is unburnt fuel. Just pouring more fuel to a engine is not goona make it magicly run better unless the engine has been modified to require the extra fuel.
Now diesels are a bit different than gasers. So more fuel can make more power, but there is a cutoff. Basicly when you see smoke, you have too much fuel.

[RobertISaar]

so, just like gas engines, once you pass a certain air/fuel threshold, the extra fuel actually hurts power due to it more or less quenching the flame?

[EagleMark]

Watched a SMOKING diesel the other day take off from a traffic light while kids were crossing... they got a soot bath! Just not cool... I'm sure it was done on purpose!

[1project2many]

Robert, with turbo engines there's an added consideration to choosing the AFR. Higher density exhaust gas does a better job of driving a turbocharger. Even though the efficiency of the engine is down, a too rich mixture is often the driving force behind higher boost as the fuel molecules and particulates are better able to impart heat energy to the turbine.

Diesels have been using EGR for years but because of the high carbon content in diesel exhaust the passages tend to plug in much less time than a gas engine. Today's diesels are extracting more power and heat from a drop of diesel which in turn is requiring the EG to be cooled before being returned to the engine to reduce NOx This increases passage plugging which leads to driveablilty problems.

Particulate filters are simply carbon traps and in order to keep them clean the pcm will run cleaning cycles which cause the engine to run with altered timing and fuel delivery for short durations in order to heat the trap and burn off the carbon. Not only does it waste fuel but it seemingly adds to NOx. But apparently the overall result is a cleaner tailpipe so it's ok. The technology isn't new by any means. Transit buses in California have used it since at least the '80s.

[EagleMark]

so, just like gas engines, once you pass a certain air/fuel threshold, the extra fuel actually hurts power due to it more or less quenching the flame?

I'm not sure about newer computer controlled diesels... but the old mechanical ones did not! More fuel was more power... maybe there was a point that it was wasted but I never saw black smoke... maybe in a gear shift if I floored it but just a little for a second.

I drove a convetional Peterbuilt back in about 1986, it had a 425 Cat engine and extened hood, 13 speed, air ride front and rear, single axle hauling double bottom dumps. The engine was not stock! More fuel = more power! But no smoke? But also produced more heat! The reason the truck was built this way was for effeicency of hauling materials to plants around San Diego, all mountains. I could do 3 to 5 loads a day more then basic stock trucks. Never slowed down on hills and kept up with car traffic. The thing was like driving a Caddy! The only thing I had to watch was EGT or Pyro temps which only got to hot on the longest of hills like when I did go over the mountian which was like 40 miles up it would get to hot and I had to back out and drop a couple gears to keep the turbo and exhaust temps down. Stock diesel engine you could keep your foot to floor all the way, no heat issue, also a lot slower...

[1project2many]

Just noticed that Cali requires the CVN to be checked against a master list from the manufacturer to ensure it's a valid calibration. Looks like it applies to 2008 and newer vehicles. There's also a story from Massachusetts about determining a HD Chevy truck pcm or cal had been switched from an OBDII compliant to non compliant version by using CVNs.

Now this is a case where I'd love to see an inexpensive program to get your own cal certified. I really feel there are a lot of people who would play by the rules if it were within the reach of the average guy to do so. It looks liek the framework is in place in Cali but are they open to using it or is it just for the big guys who want to pay to play?

(1.1) Certification requires that manufacturers submit emission test data from one or more durability demonstration test vehicles (test vehicles). For applications certified on engine dynamometers, engines may be used instead of vehicles.

We're not the only ones fighting EPA and CARB. I'm viewing the slides from a 2009 SAE presentation by a man from GM who is proposing making smart sensors that can do self diagnostics and minimizing the number of different controllers. The smart sensors cost less so they don't have to be covered by the state mandated emissions warranty, and it reduces the work of keeping track of CVN's.

[Six_Shooter]

What's "CVN"?

[EagleMark]

Calibration Verification Number. Kind of like a Prom ID.

This would mean nothing to a calibration taken from a vehicle and changed and flashed back in.

GM has gotten savey to this. Haven't seen but read where dealers can use Tech II or? and check Checksum to match engine cal, trans cal etc... CVN would be the same but each calibration, if changed would have a checksum differant then what is listed in stock cal/CVN.

Checksum change = no warrenty...

New vehicles need to keep there stock PCM and replace it when going for service, this way it matches up and if there is an update you get it and don't have your tuned flashed out. Checking for updated calibration happens even at an oil change.

[RobertISaar]

..... i don't know how the CVN system works, but every GM OBD2 program that i've disassembled DOES have an option to ignore the calculated checksum... meaning you can leave the checksum at what the factory program is and change whatever you want, just have to have the option enabled.

if the reading device reads the PROM checksum, then this is another workaround. if it is able to request that the ECM perform a checksum test and report back it's results, that could be an issue....

however, i've also seen a LOT of free space in most OBD2 calibrations.... if the tuner were setup to do so, it wouldn't be very difficult to add values into blank areas of the PROM to get the original and new checksums to match. now there's really no method to determine a GM tune from a custom one without pulling the entire BIN and comparing it to a known GM BIN. i don't see this happening, even at a dealer.

[PJG1173]

even file tune depot isn't sharing modified .tun files anymore...

from thier home page:

"Many of you may be aware of the increased attention that vehicle tuning is receiving from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and California Air Resources Board (CARB).
While it is still legal to tune your vehicle for off-road or race use, it is not legal to do so for road registered vehicles in most US states. The modified tuning section on Tune File Depot has never been very active (only 34 tunes submitted in some 6 years of operation) so we have chosen to remove this section from the Tune File Depot website effective immediately.
It is not clear from these organisations who they consider responsible or accountable for any improper usage. In the recent weeks and months there have been some very large and high profile organisations which have made the bold move of discontinuing sales and distribution of very successful products due to this heightened attention. While Tune File Depot has not produced any of the modified tunes we simply are not prepared to risk being of interest to these agencies. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause our users, but hope that you understand."

[1project2many]

CalID is the part number assigned to a specific calibration. The CalID doesn't necessarily get changed when a calibration is modified. CVN is a Calibration Verification Number. CVN is intended to be difficult to fool or provide an altered value.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/obdii06/19682clean.pdf
Sections 4.6 to 4.7.4 are applicable.
CalID is required for every variant of control software. Unique CalID required for each software set (data plus software) that varies by one bit. (some exceptions apply)
CalID shall be available through OBDII port
2005 and newer vehicles must be equipped with CVN
CVN verifies software set integrity
CVN is available through OBDII port
CVN shall be capable of verifying if software set and data are valid and applicable for vehicle and CalID
Manufacturers shall request approval of calculation method for CVN. Approval is granted based on complexity of algorithm and difficulty of achieving same CVN with modified values
CVN shall be calculated at least once per driving cycle and stored until CVN is subsequently updated. The stored value shall be made available through OBDII port.
Manufacturers will provide list of CALID and matching CVN that allows for off-board verification that CVN is valid and appropriate.
Also:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/mailout...23/msc0623.pdf
CalID and CVN will be updated quarterly.
EPA requirements are almost mirrored here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oyA...nepage&q=calid

Other info: CVN is intended to be used for "on the spot" checksum calculation and varification. Somewhere I read that ARB is requesting manufacturers submit location for CVN to be stored for offboard verification as well.

Also note that there are a few other clues that can be used to detect an altered or incorrect calibration. See http://www.vehicletest.state.ma.us/n...ers/11FALL.doc and read the Motorist Assistance Center (MAC) Success Story beginning on p. 4

[pmkls1]

I've been busy lately and unable to spend much time reading and responding to posts so pardon my absence. (as if anyone actually noticed ) But hey, once I enter into a dialogue I do like to remain in it for the duration. When it comes to recognizing if a vehicle is US based or not as soon as the VIN info is read the scanner knows that it is a vehicle produced for the US market. From there I'm not sure of specifics, but I'm sure that there would be a few different ways that the calibration could be flagged before you get into the tuning program. But this question has already been addressed anyway.

Once you get into verifying that the current calibration file is valid or not the manufacturers can easily determine that. I do not know the specifics of how, but I know that this is highly monitored by the manufacturers particularly when it comes to diesel trucks. I know that just about any type of warranty engine repair on GM diesel trucks requires a download of the ecm calibration and if I remember correctly you actually have to send it to them. I'm not 100% familiar with the exact protocol because I avoided diesels like the plague. I am trained and certified in diesel repair, but there were a few reasons I didn't want to mess with them. The main reason was because most stalls, including mine, were too small to get most of the bigger trucks all the way in and the roof was low so you could only get them a few feet off the ground and you had to try to crouch and walk under them at the same time. That's getting a little off topic, but yeah the ecm calibrations are watched like a hawk and any claims for repairs that require a copy of the calibration are automatically rejected if it is missing or not stock.

When it comes to the exhaust smoke, I was always under the impression that once you get extreme with power plumes of smoke were normal. Of course, I am referring to "regular" unaltered diesel fuel. I don't know if any of you have ever watched any type of diesel motorsports, but you won't find a diesel that doesn't bellow out the smoke there. I have watched a few diesel tractor pulls and there were specific conversations that the commentators had about the smoke. They had actually explained a little about the smoke and why it would change colors as they spooled the engines up which was a process that took a few seconds. I've also recently seen some exclusive diesel drag racing rand they really made quite a cloud. It is actually so thick that if you were watching from a viewpoint in the pits you couldn't see the cars after they left the line until they were way down the track. It also looked like whoever was behind would have quite a time seeing the track. Of course I do realize that these are dedicated racing engines and they are quite different than a pick up or tractor trailer.

[Playtoy_18]

I'll be honest and say I don't really follow that EPA stuff but am careful and only do work by word of mouth.
I have to say though,since all the new units sold will be affected by the updated programming from EFILive (and likely JET DST eventually) all I can see is the value on my TCII and Efilive equipment going up :)

[Playtoy_18]

I was rereading this,and thought of a few things.
As far as non-usa soft/firmware,seems that could be defeated by either sending it to a fellow forum member in canada,europe or Oz and having them update (or order) for you.
If the verification is in the VIN,and the software will recognize then we simply need a VIN database of various vehicles that are not Cali/US compliant.

And while I don't know how it is done,yes the dealer scantool will recognize an aftermarket calibration.
I read the GM memo that I believe eaglemark was talking about,but on Fords I have experienced it firsthand.
It will not only recognize the non-stock calibration but also sends it to Ford engineers for ??
It happened on an SVT focus a kid bought and stripped for autocross.
Can't remember exactly how it went,but iirc the IDS (ford scantool) popped up a window that rejected it and some other stuff.
We were tired of messing with him(dumb kid,stripped interior then put a huge box in back and heavy chrome wheels) so it was just one reason among many to finally void him for constant lean diag/repair.
It was first time I saw it,and I refused warranty work on it due to what I recognized as a nitrous setup that he had obviously uninstalled just for us. As well as cold air intake and other stuff.
Turns out it had been a prob since I got there with lean codes and constant rechecks,I just recognized enough stuff for them to finally say with confidence it ain't their fault.

Since then I always asked my SVT customers if they had aftermarket cals so I wouldn't needlessly void warranty.
We didn't mind aftermarket,unless it was possibly involved in the issue. And then we would attempt to help with warranty anyway depending on customer's attitude.
That kid had a bad attitude,and the kind of customer we didn't need.
In my experience there were two kinds of SVT owners,the ones that think they know everything and were total roosters or the nicest people you meet who take advice or opinion and are just happy to enjoy the car.