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Thread: Tuning restrictions coming for software makers.

  1. #1
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Tuning restrictions coming for software makers.

    This will be a push for TunerPro since all files are community made!

    I'm sure more will follow, right now EPA is hitting the diesel tuners so it looks like an effort to avoid legality the software is changing before it hits them. EFI Live is not based in USA, so EPA went after diesel tuners using it.

    From the EFI Live forum.

    Diesel tuning restrictions for USA customers
    As many of you may have heard or read about in the last few days, our next software update will contain restrictions to the available calibrations for diesel engines. More specifically for the LMM and 6.7L Cummins that have a DPF system fitted.
    USA based customers will no longer have access to alter the calibrations affecting the operation and diagnostics of these emissions controlling components. For EFILive users outside of the USA this restriction will not apply and you should notice no change in what you can and can't tune. There will not be separate USA and International versions of the software, there will still only be one version for downloading.

    We would like to make this thread the official place to ask questions regarding these changes, however, if the questions are nothing more than you venting your dissatisfaction about this then the post will be removed.

    Please read THIS as a starting point.

    Based on the ongoing discussions in this thread, below is a few key items, an FAQ of sorts that you might miss reading through the various pages.


    • Your existing V2's, Autocals etc will continue to work fine with the current public releases, V7.5.7 Build 211 & V8.2.1 Build 203.
    • If you update the firmware in the V2/AC to that in the next release it might not work correctly with older software, it's always been this way with each new release anyway.
    • For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers.
    • It's still your choice if you update or not, we aren't forcing you, we aren't sneaking the restrictions in.
    • There will only be one version of the EFILive software, there is no secret 'international' version USA users can install.
    • The restrictions have nothing to do with your registration details on the forum or with your V2 warranty cards.
    • Sending EFILive staff Emails and PM's asking how to get around this will simply be ignored, no response whatsoever.

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  2. #2
    Fuel Injected! pmkls1's Avatar
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    I knew that this was only a matter of time. I'm actually surprised that it has taken this long for the epa or some other entity to find a way to crack down on tuning abilities. I think that the acronym EPA really stands for Egomaniacal Peremptory Assholes. Don't get me wrong, I believe that efforts need to be made to protect the environment. It just seems that, just like so many other organizations, the epa is more about politics and hidden agendas than it's intended purpose. I just find it disheartening to see yet another area where our freedoms are being taken from us a little bit at a time. Everyday the government grows bigger and more powerful and slowly progresses toward becoming a fascism instead of a democracy.
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    I was just reading about maintenance and issues with these filters. Tuners are calibrating the vehicle so the customer can remove the Diesel Particulate Filter. Particulates are a very noticeable part of diesel emissions and removing the filter on a stock vehicle makes for a truck with visible exhaust smoke. Bad, bad, bad. Unfortunately the OE strategies for keeping these filters clean may not be effective for some customers without and repair facilities may not know or care about alternative methods to clean them out. Ultimately customers can receive bills up to $5k to replace a plugged or restricted filter so it's no surprise that people want to remove it. In the case of modified diesel vehicles it's almost a given that particulate content is much higher in the exhaust and a typical DPF will not stand for that for very long. There are medium and heavy duty truck repair centers which have special heaters to clean and burn out the DPF. And in the commercial world, Donaldson and others have had systems out for 20 years which run dual DPF's and will automatically switch between filters when restriction gets too high. The plugged filter is then subjected to a cleaning cycle after which it is ready to be put back into service.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I have been temped to get into Diesel Tuning because of the many inquires I get from Old School EFi advertisements. I don't even advertise that I do diesel tuning, yet the inquires to do diesel tuning keep coming my way. I wonder, if EFI Live knows there is a Vancouver Washington, and would think I was from Vancouver British Columbia like some of the geologically challenged people I meet when I'm just 2 miles south of my home in Portland Oregon? EFI Live is a smart group of people, I'm sure they know how to use Google Earth before shipping to Vancouver Ahh?

    dave w

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    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if they are going to through these restrictions into the gas world as well with a new update? I've got a duplicate laptop now so when these restrictions come into play it will get no more updates!

    That said there is so much missing from the 98-00 Votec it would not matter on that one...

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    I'm actually surprised that it has taken this long for the epa or some other entity to find a way to crack down on tuning abilities.
    It hasn't really taken this long. They hit Casper's for O2 simulators in '07.
    "Today’s settlement, the first of its kind, requires Casper’s to stop selling electronic devices — known as oxygen sensor simulators or “O2 Sims” — recall the devices, and pay more than $74,000 in civil penalties to the United States. An O2 Sim tricks an automobile engine’s computer into sensing a properly functioning emission control system, even when the catalytic converter is missing or faulty. These “after-market” sensors are considered illegal “defeat devices” under the federal CAA."
    http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2007/J..._enrd_490.html

    As for EFILive, is it really EPA crackdown or just threat / fear of potential action that's motivating the change? After all, people have been playing with tuning software since the early '90s and it's been in public view the entire time.

    I hope that, as long as the hobbyists generally try and keep the cars cleaner, the enforcers tend to look for specific major violators rather than shut to entire community down. What I'd love to see is an inexpensive program for testing and education so people can get their modified vehicles built and tuned for compliance. For the most part people I know are not interested in turning their cars into gross polluters. Removing access to software will push the hobby backward 30 years.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    I'm wondering if they are going to through these restrictions into the gas world as well with a new update? I've got a duplicate laptop now so when these restrictions come into play it will get no more updates!

    That said there is so much missing from the 98-00 Votec it would not matter on that one...
    I've been wondering the same about the OBDII gas power vehicles. I'm thinking, because the "cable/software" needed to flash OBDII is already under tight controls, OBDII gas powered vehicles are not going to be in the political "cross hairs" during the current political administration. I'm thinking the "Genie" is already out of the bottle for OBDII gas powered vehicles, and any political action to put the "Genie" back in the bottle would be unrealistic and unenforceable.

    Ultimately, if someone really wanted to, the flash chip could be de-soldered from the circuit board and flashed with a new file and re-soldered back to the circuit board. The only real changes enacted by the new Diesel Tuning Restriction as I see it, the skill level needed and compensation required to Diesel Tune just went up. In all practical sense, Diesel Tuning will still continue, similar to the "Speak Easy" days of Alcohol Prohibition.

    dave w

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    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post

    As for EFILive, is it really EPA crackdown or just threat / fear of potential action that's motivating the change? After all, people have been playing with tuning software since the early '90s and it's been in public view the entire time.
    It's coming their way do to this...

    http://www.hsperformance.com/press-release/


    EFI Live has just announced it's support of a new http://www.cumminstuningforum.com/ I'm guessing to further itself from the issue?

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    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    At least EFI Live has notified everyone this is coming! So far it's just for DPF in diesels and was initiated by EPA because of all the YouTube videos of diesels pumping out black smoke! Besides DPF paremeters it looks like EGR is going to be done as well. Cure is to not upgrade, but next upgrade includes some cool features for diesel tuners like a new custom operating system. How they are going to implement to just USA customers is not being said since upgrade software is the same? Old tunes with mods done are not effected...

    But HPTuners did this already and did not notify anyone...

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    I was reading stuff on Sprinter forums (we're getting a new Sprinter this year). Aussie / NZ guy was talking about DPF issues and was very, very cryptic about how to get around them. Maybe protecting a revenue stream? Maybe worried about legal issues? A couple other forums with worldwide participation seemed to show the same results. Diesel guys seem to be aware of something going on, and it's big enough they aren't saying much. The whole world hates black smoke right now. Everything from bad weather to bad economy to local McDonald's screwing up your cheeseburger is getting blamed on climate change and greenhouse gases. True or not, best approach might be to avoid it.

    Question of "how" for EFILive is intriguing. I'm not the only one with an interest in finding out but mine's just curiousity. Of course, files will be zipping back and forth across the ocean like crazy once updates prevent changes. Neat idea... install tuning software on remote machine in foreign country and allow remote access software. User can log in, run tuning software, make changes and save. Then D/L changed file back to machine in US. "Nope, no US machine has access to these features."

  11. #11
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    From what I read EFI Live has it figured out but of course isn't talking. Same software, no difference they say, just won't work in USA? On the other hand it looks like tuners have it figured out and again not talking. This is without emailing files accross country boudries. I think it's in the bootloader, but how would bootloader know where you are?

    There's also a calming factor that none of this will happen to LSx PCM... for now I guess...

    There is one feature in DVDs I don't understand how it works? Regions? Must be differant DVDs?

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  12. #12
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    From what I read FEILive will not be making two separate software packages, so this will not only affect US tuners, but tuners world wide.
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  13. #13
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    DVD Region codes have a complimentary system. DVD unit / drive has info for region it's sold or used in. DVD has info for region it can be played in.

    Bootloader is software that does initial job of uploading the main program to get teh box working. Kind of like when you install winnows on a new hard drive and Winnows Setup" program starts and runs, and loads a bunch of drivers, &etc. Changing the bootloader is like changing winnows setup.

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    does EFILive require you to register your address with them when you buy their software/hardware?
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  15. #15
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertISaar View Post
    does EFILive require you to register your address with them when you buy their software/hardware?
    I used my credit card to purchase EFI Live, so I'm thinking the billing address or shipping address is available to EFI Live. Maybe an Ebay International seller offering a used "NIB" EFI Live system would be alternate option?

    dave w

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