TBI Chip 1983 CJ 7 with 1990 350 TBI having chip proram issues

[EagleMark]

As Dave suggested I do set up owner laptops with cables so they are ready to go. Also do live tuning with an emulater and remote desktop connection tuning via wireless internet. Also have one as a loaner but it is out right now.

When I do them by mail first I send a starter chip. To do anymore I have to have data log or it's all a guess and wasted time and mail, not to mention not tuned right.

Also he can send you a chip without wating for a return, yes there should be a clause that they all have to be returned in the end. I know why, it's because scam chips has been exposed! We have many! But why make you suffer the wait. Just mail one..... but without data why bother?

Headers can cause some false knock, most stock 1227747 5.7L engines will have soame false Knock WOT anyway. Even worse and possibly KILLER with your timing curve if the ESC test is left on! It adds 11 degrees timing as a Knock Sensor test at WOT, if no respnse it adds 22 degrees! Just turning off the error code does not turn off the test!

You can also have Knock long before you can hear it!

Your scenario of 38 degrees advance with timing light scares me! What happens if PE spark is added (another 5 degrees) which you can not do while under the hood with a timing light? What about decleleration spark? For instance one bin had 39 degrees in 20 MAP column, you moved your distributor 12 degrees, now you have 51 degrees advance during decel and it's firing the wrong cylinder!

OK now say spark is stock at 16 at idle, you added 12 so now it's 28, then start up spark is added and it's 36!

Besides 38 degrees is to much advance in a daily driver light car and who knows the quality of fuel, and stupid in your heavy big tire beast. Even if that wasn't a consideration I would never run that much advance with out a knock sensor. Not even close if by mail, little more hands on. I'm a wimp on the safe side but I have yet to hurt a motor. Screw the last 15 HP unless your on a dyno, then still back it off for a daily driver.

Pull your spark plugs and use a magnifying glass to look for specs (melted metal) on spark plugs.

[EagleMark]

There's a lot of adders and subtracters to timing. But if you want to see actual WOT timing in your chip, rev engine to 3600 RPM and watch timing when you pinch off MAP sensor vacuum line. Without making MAP go to 100 you don't know where your at unless you are watching live data.

[davidw]

As Dave suggested I do set up owner laptops with cables so they are ready to go. Also do live tuning with an emulater and remote desktop connection tuning via wireless internet. Also have one as a loaner but it is out right now.

When I do them by mail first I send a starter chip. To do anymore I have to have data log or it's all a guess and wasted time and mail, not to mention not tuned right.

Also he can send you a chip without wating for a return, yes there should be a clause that they all have to be returned in the end. I know why, it's because scam chips has been exposed! We have many! But why make you suffer the wait. Just mail one..... but without data why bother?

Headers can cause some false knock, most stock 1227747 5.7L engines will have soame false Knock WOT anyway. Even worse and possibly KILLER with your timing curve if the ESC test is left on! It adds 11 degrees timing as a Knock Sensor test at WOT, if no respnse it adds 22 degrees! Just turning off the error code does not turn off the test!

You can also have Knock long before you can hear it!

Your scenario of 38 degrees advance with timing light scares me! What happens if PE spark is added (another 5 degrees) which you can not do while under the hood with a timing light? What about decleleration spark? For instance one bin had 39 degrees in 20 MAP column, you moved your distributor 12 degrees, now you have 51 degrees advance during decel and it's firing the wrong cylinder!

OK now say spark is stock at 16 at idle, you added 12 so now it's 28, then start up spark is added and it's 36!

Besides 38 degrees is to much advance in a daily driver light car and who knows the quality of fuel, and stupid in your heavy big tire beast. Even if that wasn't a consideration I would never run that much advance with out a knock sensor. Not even close if by mail, little more hands on. I'm a wimp on the safe side but I have yet to hurt a motor. Screw the last 15 HP unless your on a dyno, then still back it off for a daily driver.

Pull your spark plugs and use a magnifying glass to look for specs (melted metal) on spark plugs.

Is the ESC responsible for fuel cut and spark advance in deceleration? And if its not being used in the bin is there any other way fuel cut and spark advance are controlled in deceleration mode?

Also what would make the high idle work for just a second or so and then return to normal idle with the (B8?) signal wire for A/C having 12 volts?

Thanks

[EagleMark]

ESC only handles spark retard from knock counts.

Problem is without it, if ESC test has not been patched, test still adds 11.9 degrees at high load (PE) first time and if no response 22.2 second time. You can see the knock counts in data from the test. Test happens once every start up when qualifiers are met.

; ESC FAIL
;---------------------------------------------
LD54A FCB 0 ; 0 SEC Eng run time prior to test
LD54B FCB 120 ; 240 SEC'S, Min time since run enable
LD54C FCB 235 ; PA count limit
;
LD54D FCB 23 ; 2.3 SEC'S, EST fail test period
LD54E FCB 3 ; TEST DURATION
;
LD54F FCB 55 ; 84c, 183f ERR 43 TEMP LIMIT
LD550 FCB 34 ; 105c, 221f ERR 43 HOT TEMP LIMIT
;
LD551 FCB 128 ; 3200 RPM LIMIT
LD552 FCB 195 ; 82 Kpa MAP LIMIT (TBL)
;---------------------------------------------
; SA TO FORCE KNK FOR TEST
;---------------------------------------------
LD553 FCB 34 ; 11.9 Deg SA TEST SPK1ST Pwr Enr MODE
LD554 FCB 63 ; 22.2 Deg SA TEST SPK 2ND Pwr Enr MODE

There's no DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cut Off) or DE (Deceleration Enleanment) spark, it's all inclusive of the Main Spark Advance table, but there is 13 Scalers and 4 tables to handle DFCO and DE fuel.

Also what would make the high idle work for just a second or so and then return to normal idle with the (B8?) signal wire for A/C having 12 volts?

It's a secret!

When I left AFI about 10 years ago he couldn't do it. I figured it out...

[devind]

I have to say the information on the site is both very informative but also very overwhelming. It seems like as I read through different threads for every question I find an answer for I end up with 10 more question.

Yesterday I was working on trying to get an old laptop so that I can do some data logging when the cable I order arrives. When I got home I remembered my wife had bought an old Dell laptop at a garage sell (I thought it was just a waste of $30 when she bought it home) but I pulled it out of the closet and fired it up. I could not believe when it came on there was already a data logging program already on it (Data Masters) there was some old receipts and paperwork in the case, apparently the previous owner had bought the laptop off of ebay just to do data logging with, pretty ironic if I say so myself.

As far as using Tuner Pro I was able to download some files and play with it some I even downloaded a data log and was able to see it work too.

I have to be honest though as much as I would like to learn how to do my own programming. With me being so computer illiterate and having so many irons in the fire working and trying to run a business I can’t see me being able to dedicate all the time necessary to do mine. If it was more of a stock program maybe, but with my set up already having so many modification like Vortec heads and with sensors like the knock sensor being deleted I think it would be so overwhelming I would not be able to do it. To be honest that is why I tried to use a plug and play option by ordering a chip through TBI chips.

But I am up to learning to doing some data logging and getting the necessary equipment to do some remote chip burning. That way I can learn some of the process and gain a little more understanding of it all. Still I have to admit as computer illiterate as I am this may end up being a major ordeal. As I get closer to that stage I may PM you to find out the cost and details of doing a program this way.

I have two different customer projects in my shop right now that are still a ways from completion but both have 4.3 GM TBI non Vortec motors in them that will also require tuning when completed. So it worth my while to learn what I can.

Also when I do pull a data log of the jeep should I put the base timing back to 0?

[EagleMark]

I'd be glad to help when time comes, even if I do your tune you will learn. When I do remote desktop and talk with you on the phone you see learn as we work. with or without emulater. Besides that everyone here learns anyway. Be forwared, learning tuning, doing tuning while running a business and having a life means you need at minimum 48 hours in a day without sleep! Take out the tuning and there is a few hours of sleep in a 24 hour day...

Without knowing what spark paraemeters are set at in bin there is no correct answer to where and set timing. I would go no more then 0-5 advance with bypass wire disconnected.

[devind]

I'd be glad to help when time comes, even if I do your tune you will learn. When I do remote desktop and talk with you on the phone you see learn as we work. with or without emulater. Besides that everyone here learns anyway.

Sounds Great Thanks

Be forwared, learning tuning, doing tuning while running a business and having a life means you need at minimum 48 hours in a day without sleep! Take out the tuning and there is a few hours of sleep in a 24 hour day...

I know that's right. I am lucky when I get to work on my own stuff anyway.

[mdj]

Mark are you saying that using the a/c on rpm will not work to bump up rpm with 12 volt input if this is so how do we get this secret out of you.

[EagleMark]

Right, many people have tried and the paremeters to adjust just aren't there! Till I went through the $42 hack and added them to the XDF file. TunerCat won't do it. You have to raise RPM and IAC count, but there was only RPM so you get a short blip and decayed out from IAC lag filters because A/C on IAC count was not raised.

This is all from memory and I'm old... I lost the bin I had it set up in, in the computer crash of 2012. So I'd have to test on my 90 Suburban before I give paticulars.

[mdj]

I'm running on board air and I planned on sending signal to the ecm with a toggle to run my idle up for the compressor.is there any literature on hacks of tbi systems I would like to get a better understanding of them?