E10 is bad enough but E15 is a killer!

[EagleMark]

Ethanol sucks! Besides raising food prices it all rots your fuel system.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/20008...as-in-your-car

[RobertISaar]

E15 wouldn't be so bad on a higher compression/boosted ~mid 90s and newer vehicle if the calibration were tweaked to support it....

but what they're doing is just like what they did with E10....

allowing higher amounts of ethanol(relatively high octane at 99.15 AKI) in the fuel allows the octane of the base gasoline before the addition of ethanol to be significantly lower and still hit the 87 octane rating at the pump. it's a lot cheaper to make gasoline this way, so that's how the refineries will do it.

so, with E0, 87 octane = 87 octane blend of gasoline
E10 87 octane = 85.6 octane base
E15 87 octane = 84.8 octane base

[EagleMark]

What I don't like and they touched on it in the video is the seperation! I have seen this my self in as little of fuel in a float bowl on a lawn mower engine. Puddle of what I thought was water, but from what they said it was seperated enthanol? I always thought the ethonal attracted condensation...

Plus I have seen the rot/corrosion and thorugh damage of complete fuel systems from tank to carb.

Most motorcycles still have carbs and metal tanks, all lawn equiptment etc... our dump fills up with lawn mowers every spring from them sitting all winter.

It's just horrible fuel... Corn is for food!

[RobertISaar]

ethanol combines with water, then it seperates... it tends to stay mixed with gasoline when it hasn't combined with water.

that's why the "fuel anti-freeze" stuff is almost 100% isopropyl alcohol... pour it in the tank, mixes with the gasoline, absorbs water where it can and then gets burned.

[EagleMark]

Yes I familar with fuel line anti freeze... at the truck stops they sell it in little bottle expensive or larger bottle of isopropyl alcohol cheaper...

So far my mileage is up 10% without a tune change by just using 93 non ethanol! Have to calculate if it is cheaper? No knock at WOT!

[RobertISaar]

10% difference in fuel economy means you're winning anytime that fuel is 10% more expensive or lower.

at ~3.30 for 87 around here, anything under 3.63 would be a net gain.

[EagleMark]

Haven't been to get my Non Ethenol yet this month, but regular 87 is $2.99 here! Wierd? Must be an Obama rescue?

[Six_Shooter]

I've been using E10 for years now, along with many other Ontarians, and have not seen these "destructive" effects of E10 on any vehicle I've worked on.

[EagleMark]

Newer vehicles are not an issue... until they sit awhile. But for old vehicles, motorcycles and lawn equiptment it is horrible!

[RobertISaar]

no idea what kind of fuel we get around here, but the MC has been on the same tank of fuel since sometime in mid-september...

i'm sure when it gets on the road again, there will be the typical "bad gas" symptoms, but the fuel system seems to have been built "robust" enough to handle this kind of thing multiple times now.

that being said, i dare not touch any of the steel fuel lines for fear of failure.

[gregs78cam]

We have non-ethanol premium here in Spirit Lake, I put it the Camaro and all small engines I have (pressure washer, ATVs, lawnmowers, chainwaw). I think it is $3.55 right now. I usually fill up the Camaro in the fall before I park it in the shop, and then pump out of it for the stuff I need to use through the winter. Then put a fresh tank in it in the spring. Seems to work well so far.

[EagleMark]

We've been storing a freinds riding lawn mower, push mower and tractor with 93 non ethenol and stabilizer for 2 winters now and they fire up and run fine all summer. Before that I had to flush tanks, fuel lines and carbs each spring when he used E10. Proof is in the puddin...

[JeepsAndGuns]

Being a lawn mower, small engine, 2cycle, and utility vehicle tech, I deal with this stuff almost daily.
Sometimes it can be as simple as how well the fuel tanks are sealed and how the fuel is stored. As we all know, ethanol absorbs moisture, even directly from the air! If the fuel cap is left loose, the gasket is bad, equipment parked outside, or there are holes in the gas cans, can all lead to problems. I have drained some fuel from a mower before and set it on my workbench in a open top cup and had it cloud up and start to seperate in as little as 15-20 min. Thats from just the humidity in the air!! I am surprized at how many people keep their gas cans setting outside in the rain and weather. Most people will buy those non vented plastic cans and then drill a small hole in them to allow air in so they flow faster and never think anything of it. Even a tiny hole like that can allow moisture in and after a week or two, they now have water in their fuel.
"My mower was running fine untill I filled it up with gas" How many times I have heard that....

[Six_Shooter]

Newer vehicles are not an issue... until they sit awhile. But for old vehicles, motorcycles and lawn equiptment it is horrible!

I usually work on older vehicles. ;)

I also have no more trouble starting out lawn mower in the spring than I would with non-ethanol fuel. 3 or 4 pulls of the cord and it goes, if I didn't replace the spark plug.

Maybe your E10 blends are not really using Ethanol? I've had fuel sitting in cups open for hours on the bench for hours and never had it change it's look. (This usually happens when I fire an engine for the first time and need to pour some fuel down the carb, or trouble shooting a no start situation.)

[EagleMark]

Sounds like our countries have differant fuels?

Last spring my neighbors lawn mower would not start, it was brand new year before and stored all winter inside, she bought it with electric start cause she is old but still wants to do her own lawn. Pull float bowl and there is corrosion around fuel level and same level inside main jet. Look into fuel in float bowl and there is a puddle of? in bottom of fuel? Clean flush and all is well!

Kid had a new carb on his IH, put ot on shelf with fuel still in it when we did EFI. Few months later, after I did the neighbors lawn mower I took it apart. Same thing corrosion around fuel level, just at level, none below and none above, and puddle in bottom of fuel in float bowl.