Setting up WB in the ADX editor.

[EagleMark]

Lumina would have electric fans and pretty sure an S10 would not. This is a weird bin! Also the XDf has a weird VE table and another strange modifier I've never seen.

Remind me what ignition you have now?

[POZE]

The small cap GM with pole piece only no Hall effect . It's modified to fit the MG engine. The dizzy is reverse rotation from the 2.5 S-10. No electric fans on S-10.
What is the strange modifier?
So you survived Stadium Drive in Indy.

[EagleMark]

So you survived Stadium Drive in Indy.

You lost me there?

The small cap GM with pole piece only no Hall effect . It's modified to fit the MG engine. The dizzy is reverse rotation from the 2.5 S-10. No electric fans on S-10.
What is the strange modifier?

Base Pulse Constant Vs. Vacuum is the paremeter. Along with the shape of VE fueling table, look at it in Graph, never seen anything like either. But maybe it's a V6 thing that Robert is aware of?

Is this the distributor that came with that ECM on the S10 truck? If so that is a CAM sensor, does the Lumina have a CAM sensor? It's just weird if I'm following Robert correctly that turning On/Off the fans changes the entire bin?

[POZE]

There was a VIN A and VIN E 2.5 in the 1991 S-10s. That dist. is used on VIN E 2.5 S-10 engines and doesn't work for VIN A.
I have VIN A components on my engine. The dist. for the VIN A doesn't have the hall effect, only the pole piece. The Lumina is distributor-less that has crank sensor behind the ICM on the side of the block. The lumina uses a magnetic pulse generator type of crank sensor not a hall effect.

I have also wondered about the VE table shape. I have not been able to find a VIN A memcal to copy and see if that is GM stock VE table.
If it is there must be some type of multiplier?

Mark ..I saw a post that mentioned Lincoln Tech (Stadium Drive). Was there in 77.

[RobertISaar]

the BPC vs vacuum was a surprise to me... with well-defined VE tables, it's not really necessary at all.

outside of some OBD2 applications that have IFR vs MAP tables, this is really the first i've seen it that i can remember.

[EagleMark]

I was in Lincoln tech in 1977, but Union NJ...

This thing is getting weirder all the time? If I had some spare change I'd go buy one of these S10 just to figure out WTF!

Found this on another site:
The Code A has a different intake manifold with a different EGR valve. The gaskets are different.
The Code A has a different throttle body (TBI).
The Code A has a different Brainbox with different bin tuning.

1991 was a "transition" year model. During the first part of the 91 build the trucks used the remaining stock of the Vin Code E motors, and the later ones have the much more desirable L-38, H.O. Pontiac Vin Code A engine.While the Code E was a good motor, the Code A has more power, 13 more HP than the Code E.

The bin we are using is listed as L38 HO so Vin A and you have the right distributor.

But your differant Memcal has me concerned? ASWY is an LN8 motor, AUKH is a L38 motor. What distributor did the LN8 use? Alos if your distributor spins opisite of origanal you would need to swap pickup coil wo=ires for correct timing. BTW did you get the distributor idea yourself? I did those around 2000...

Possible differant thermastats? 180 or 195.

Wiring harness was differant from VIN A to E, obvious if the distributor had a cam sensor in one and not the other? Why did it have 2 sensors?

VIN A Distributor
http://www.cardone.com/Products/Prod...=301454&p=rock

VIN E Distributor
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...429&cc=1060894

Is this really the same Iron Duke engine?

[POZE]

This thing is getting weirder all the time? If I had some spare change I'd go buy one of these S10 just to figure out WTF!

I have wanted a chance to copy a virgin MEMCAL or buy one but haven't found one yet. Often wondered about the VE table shape. Haven't actually had this car out of the garage to see what happens under a load.

Found this on another site:
The Code A has a different intake manifold with a different EGR valve. The gaskets are different.
The Code A has a different throttle body (TBI).
The Code A has a different Brainbox with different bin tuning.

1991 was a "transition" year model. During the first part of the 91 build the trucks used the remaining stock of the Vin Code E motors, and the later ones have the much more desirable L-38, H.O. Pontiac Vin Code A engine.While the Code E was a good motor, the Code A has more power, 13 more HP than the Code E.

The bin we are using is listed as L38 HO so Vin A and you have the right distributor.


Out of ignorance I started using a VIN E Bin with the VIN A distributor. That created all sorts of ignition timing problems. The two did
not want to play together. VIN E Bin has an offset for ignition timing .


But your differant Memcal has me concerned? ASWY is an LN8 motor, AUKH is a L38 motor. What distributor did the LN8 use? Alos if your distributor spins opisite of origanal you would need to swap pickup coil wo=ires for correct timing. BTW did you get the distributor idea yourself? I did those around 2000...


I did not need to reverse the leads on the pole piece to get timing advance. Am I missing something here??? I have been told both ways on the MEMCAL compatibility. I would like to find an AUXH memcal so there are no possible concerns. Anyone know for sure about the MEMCAL question or have an AUXH or VIN A MEMCAL to sell?

Possible differant thermastats? 180 or 195.


I am using 180

Wiring harness was differant from VIN A to E, obvious if the distributor had a cam sensor in one and not the other? Why did it have 2 sensors?


Wiring diagrams are the same and now that you asked I am not sure the pole piece is functioning on VIN E distributor. Thats part of how I originally missed the distributor differences. It's obvious by now there was no donor vehicle.

VIN A Distributor
http://www.cardone.com/Products/Prod...=301454&p=rock

VIN E Distributor
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...429&cc=1060894

Is this really the same Iron Duke engine?[/QUOTE]

???

[POZE]

[QUOTE=RobertISaar;17638]the BPC vs vacuum was a surprise to me

If I make a change to BPC I also make the same percentage change to BPC vs Vacuum.

[EagleMark]

Picture of your distributor pole piece is also wierd? See links I provided, I've never seen one like yours.

Distributor plug in's are differant, so wiring diagram has to be differant. You've already found bin to be differant. What does timing look like at timing marks with timing light? Close to bin? Remember there are adders and subtracters...

Since we have never seen the BPW paremeter before it's only a guess, but it starts at BPW setting, then goes down. SO if you change BPW because of fuel pressure, then a guess would be yes, they all have to go down. How are BLMs?


If it runs good without fan enabled? Just find another way, like temp probe fan On/Off swtch...

All that said it still does not answer why if you turn fans on it changes code in so many places as Robert has found. I'm guessing again it changes to Lumina type code or VIN E code for offset? Have you checked timing with light with the Fan bit checked and unchecked?

[POZE]

Alldata doesn't recognize the VIN E for 1991. They only show one ECM wiring diagram and it's the VIN A so I assumed they were the same. Have to look back at 1990 to see the VIN E wiring for ECM. Looks like the Hall Effect is offset from the timing teeth of the pole piece for VIN E distributor. That should explain the offset in the Bin for VIN E. Speaking of my distributor Do you think the different design of the pole piece makes any difference? Sine wave... module just looking for amplitude?

[EagleMark]

Personally no, but I've never seen one like yours. At this point I have more questions then answers. I would be putting a timing light on it though and check with fans enabled or not to see if that is causing this issue? Be nice to see data while tuning live and making the change if you have an AutoProm or Ostrich.

[POZE]

Using the timing light I found commanded timing to be correct +5 degrees static.
I made a trip to Twilight Zone for new plugs and cured the little idle misfire. Now I will look at the WB input that started this thread and try to get that to function operating along with the AutoProm.
Thank for all your efforts to help to get the ECM fan control to function. It will be painful to go to non ECM control of the fan. I attached a log that has it going into CL. It's lean but I haven't changed anything except setting the EGR enable temp to 150 to stabilize ignition timming.

[POZE]

Mark would you have any idea why this ADX shows data error?
The original works fine.

You had the AutoProm Channel 1 installed right but did not do the PayLoad size or Packet Offset. I fixed them but take a look at this thread for further info:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...up-in-TunerPro!

Total Pulse Width is working right, but it is Async, in the data is a Flag for Async so I added it above Async Total fuel, it will come on if Async fuel is used and then show a value in Async Total Fuel.

I also added BPW, with it you can do Injector Duty Cycle, look at $42 ADX, I think that is what you got the AutoProm channels from. It has Injector Duty Cycle Percent Value added and with all this done you can add a MPG History table. Whenever you do an update add a number to version, right now it is V2, so go V3, V3.1 or whatever and we will add it to info thread. No reason to make them better if we don't keep updated ones available.

If you look through ALDL 139.ds file in notepad you can add things. Couple notes, when your looking at Word # they are off by 1 ! I think this is do to hex starting at 0 not 1. So 1 is 0 and 2 is 1 etc...

Also when you get into Word # with 8 bits, numbered 0 to 7. Just type in for Packet Offset in right bow "1" and the hex part will show up correct. Then for Bitwise for 0 to 7 for Operand and Result to test they are:
0 = 0x01
1 = 0x02
2 = 0x04
3 = 0x08
4 = 0x10
5 = 0x20
6 = 0x40
7 = 0x80

That log was all Open Loop although O2 sesnor was ready and vehicle warmed up? Also TCC was Locked on at idle?

Nice work on improving data ADX files!

[EagleMark]

Mark would you have any idea why this ADX shows data error?
The original works fine.

Nice work on improving data ADX files!

Yes, the Payload size was off, it was increased by 5 and it needs to be 6... did I do that? Anyway it's fixed and works with your last data log.

This is still the wierdest thing I've ever worked on. In the ALDL file is so much more, it even has Calculated VE! I set up the first dashboard and monitors so I could watch this.

Were you driving? No VSS?

It only runs BLM learn at idle? Closed Loop and Ready and BLM learn at idle, then Off? BLM stay at 128 and INT goes to 180ish. There's no way to use BLM for VE tables!!! INT min is 70 and max is 235 in stock bin? Is your fuel pressure holding steady? Injector big enough? It looks like it's supposed to run like this? Wierd!

I got to get me one of these S-10's! Iron Duke on EFI steroids!

[EagleMark]

Thinking of that weird fuel table, loosing BLM learn off idle, strange INT settings, I wonder if this was GMs first attempt at a Hybrid SD/Alpha N fueling?

Haven't seen Robert? Hope he didn't loose internet again...