1228708 ECM $8B for TBI?

[dave w]

I'm working on getting a 1228708 ECM to operate a TBI. I've found information on Thridgen.org http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...ing-100-a.html that is very promising using $58.

The primary challenge I'm trying to get thru is having $8B able to trigger with a distributor ... see the notes below. It appears to me the information from Thridgen.org, the $58 configuration is using a distributor. I've posted a .pdf of the $8B wiring diagram I'm working with.

Any suggestions / ideas are welcomed!

dave w

	1228708 $58 Wiring		1228708 $8B
	connector function wire color		connector function wire color
A1	IAC "a" high blu/wht	A1	IAC "a" high blu/wht	/
A2	IAC "b" low grn/blk	A2	IAC "b" low grn/blk	/
A7	IAC "a" low blue/blk	A7	IAC "a" low blue/blk	/
A8	IAC "b" high grn/wht	A8	IAC "b" high grn/wht	/
A9	Coolant fan relay	A9	Coolant fan relay DK GRN / WHT		N/A
A11	Wastegate contol	A11	Knock Sensor DK/BLU	/	????
		A16	Oxgen Sensor PPL	/	????
A22	ECM gound blk	A22	Oxgen Sensor Ground TAN/WHT	/
B1	Check Engine Light tan/wht	B1	Check Engine Light BRN/WHT	/
		B3	DIAG Input WHT	/	????
B5	ALDL SERIAL Orange/ pin M @ALDL	B5	ALDL SERIAL Orange/ pin M @ALDL	/
B10	Ignition Run/Start Red	B10	Ignition Run~Start PNK/BLK	/
C1	+BATT Orange	C1	+BATT Orange	/
C3	Bst/Bypass tn/blk	C3	Bypass Control TAN/BLK	/
C4	Mat tan	C4	MAT TAN/WHT	/
C5	Sensor ground black	C5	Cooland Level Sensor Ground BLK		N/A
		C6	ECM Ground BLK/WHT	/	????
C7	+5v REF gray	C7	+5v REF gray	/
C9	EST white	C9	EST white	/
C10	sensor ground black	C10	TPS~MAT~CTS~MAP Sensor Ground BLK	/
		C11	6X Reference		N/A
C12	+5 v REF gray	C12	+5 v REF GRY	/
C15	TPS drk blu	C15	TPS DK BLU	/
C16	CTS yellow	C16	CTS YEL	/
C22	MAP green	C22	MAP LT GRN	/
D1	D1 Jumper to D5 inj sense [p/h 4 cyl] blue	D1	D1 Jumper to D5 inj sense [p/h 4 cyl] blue
D4	D4 Jumper to D8 inj sense [p/h 4 cyl] tan	D4	D4 Jumper to D8 inj sense [p/h 4 cyl] tan
D7	Fuel pump relay grn/wht	D7	Fuel Pump Relay DK GRN/WHT	/
D9	Inj 1@4 lt blue	D9	INJ Control LT GRN	/
		D10	ECM Ground TAN / WHT		????
D12	Ignition module ground blk/ed	D12	ECM Ground TAN / WHT	/
D12	ECM ground black
D13	REF pulse ing module ppl/wht	D13	Distributor Ref Pulse HI PPL/WHT	/
D14	D Inj drive 2@3 lgt green	D14	INJ Control LT BLU	/
D16	+ BAT orange	D17	+ BAT orange	/
D19	ALDL ground blc/wht	D19	Distributor Ref Pulse Lo BLK/RED
D21	ECM ground black

[dave w]

I've built a test setup for a 1228708 TBI system. I wired the 1228708 like the $8B pinout in the above post. I have both spark and noid lights working when I turn the distributor by hand. I'm feeling positive with the testing thus far, the $8B pinout seems to work with a small cap TBI HEI distributor without the use of a crank position sensor. The next step is to data log the test setup for the 1228708 TBI system.

dave w

[EagleMark]

Any suggestions / ideas are welcomed!

Keep up the good work! This will change TBI Off Road conversions forever.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Maybe I should start keeping a eye open at the junkyards for these.

[dave w]

Maybe I should start keeping a eye open at the junkyards for these.

The $8B .adx could use some "BLING" for both the dash and history tables. I could ship the 1228708 TBI test setup your way if you want to do some research before going to the salvage yard? Maybe someone would want to Guinea Pig the 1228708 TBI system on an engine?

dave w

[EagleMark]

I could help with the ADX, but nothing to test the system on... if I get a conversion maybe we will?

[RobertISaar]

Maybe I should start keeping a eye open at the junkyards for these.

good luck.... only came in 90-91 Quad4 Grand Prix and Cutlass Supreme.... rare when new(on the order of about 3-5000 a year).

[dave w]

good luck.... only came in 90-91 Quad4 Grand Prix and Cutlass Supreme.... rare when new(on the order of about 3-5000 a year).

True, but the ECM's and Memcals are still available from aftermarket suppliers.

Some search information from the Moates.net BCC spreadsheet:

dave w

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARDONE-77-8...a80aa0&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACDelco-1613...b7648f&vxp=mtr

Prog ID

BCC

Size

Year

Release Date

Eprom

ECM

Prom ID

Scan ID

Platform

Engine

Disp.

Trans

Trans Type

Gear Ratio

A8	ANFU	32.00 KB	1990	32659	16133648	1228707	3649	4353	LB	LG0	2.3	MY5	MAN
A8	ANFW		1990	32659	16133795	1228707	3796	4363	LB	LG0	2.3	MY5	MAN
	ANMP		1990	32659	16133950	1228707	3951	5193	NB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
	ANMR		1990	32659	16133962	1228707	3963	5203	NB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
A8	ANMS	32.00 KB	1990	32659	16133958	1228707	3959	5213	NB	LG0	2.3	MY5	MAN
A8	ANMT		1990	32659	16133954	1228707	3955	5223	NB	LG0	2.3	MY5	MAN
	AUXR		1990	32913	16153676	1228707	3677	3683	NB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
	AWLU		1990	33004	16156310	1228707	6312	5993	NB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
	AWLW		1990	33004	16156315	1228707	6316	6003	NB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
A8	BFLB		1990	34180	16191775	1228707	2180	1753	LB	LG0	2.3	MY5	MAN
A8	BFLC		1990	34180	16191777	1228707	2183	1763	LB	LG0	2.3	MY5	MAN
A8	BFLD		1990	34180	16191778	1228707	2185	1773	NB	LG0	2.3	MY5	MAN
A8	BFLF		1990	34180	16191779	1228707	2187	1783	NB	LG0	2.3	MY5	MAN
	BFLH		1990	34180	16191780	1228707	2190	1793	NB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
	BFLJ		1990	34180	16191782	1228707	2192	1803	NB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
8B	ANLP	32.00 KB	1990	32625	16133644	1228708	3645	5103	WB	LD2	2.3		AUTO
	ANLR		1990	32625	16133937	1228708	3938	5113	WB	LD2	2.3		AUTO
A8	ANXJ		1990	32625	16133941	1228708	3942	9093	WB	LG0	2.3		MAN
A8	ANXK		1990	32625	16133945	1228708	3946	9103	WB	LG0	2.3		MAN
	ATWU		1990	32737	16147610	1228708	7612	7313	WB	LD2	2.3		AUTO
	ATYT		1990	32764	16148249	1228708	8250	8223	WB	LD2	2.3		MAN
A8	ATYU		1990	32764	16148255	1228708	8256	8233	WB	LG0	2.3		MAN
	AUPD		1990	32857	16151582	1228708	1584	1583	WB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
	AUSZ		1990	32892	16152832	1228708	2834	2823	WB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
	AUTA		1990	32892	16152837	1228708	2838	2833	WB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
	BFNZ		1990	34180	16192678	1228708	2680	2393	WB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO
	BFPA		1990	34180	16192682	1228708	2683	2403	WB	LD2	2.3	MD9	AUTO

[RobertISaar]

assuming you don't need to mount underhood, then the 1228707 would be an alternative... at least then you have some chance of finding one in a junkyard.

[EagleMark]

good luck.... only came in 90-91 Quad4 Grand Prix and Cutlass Supreme.... rare when new(on the order of about 3-5000 a year).

then we should start stock piling!

True, but the ECM's and Memcals are still available from aftermarket suppliers.


dave w

Shhhh!

assuming you don't need to mount underhood, then the 1228707 would be an alternative... at least then you have some chance of finding one in a junkyard.

The whole point is an underhood waterproof ECM for off roaders. Like Jeep and Toyots Land Cruisers have no room under dash.

[dave w]

assuming you don't need to mount underhood, then the 1228707 would be an alternative... at least then you have some chance of finding one in a junkyard.

The Memcals from the 1228707 should work in the 1228708, similar to the way 1227727 / 1227730 have interchangeable Memcals?

There are interchangeable parts between the 1228708 and 1227727 ECM's; Memcal cover, wiring connector plugs and connector cover. The wiring connector plugs I'm using are from a 1227727 V6 application, so that helps when shopping at the salvage yard for parts.

I admit, anything automotive ECM related that is 20+ years old is not going to be ultra low cost, or ultra abundant!

I've easily spent more than a Benjamin Franklin $$$ thus far. The hours, well I think I have about 20 or so hours in the test setup thus far. One advantage I see to a 1228708 TBI system is the underhood convenience and some possible Marine applications converting to TBI.

dave w

[RobertISaar]

The Memcals from the 1228707 should work in the 1228708, similar to the way 1227727 / 1227730 have interchangeable Memcals?

There are interchangeable parts between the 1228708 and 1227727 ECM's; Memcal cover, wiring connector plugs and connector cover. The wiring connector plugs I'm using are from a 1227727 V6 application, so that helps when shopping at the salvage yard for parts.

yeah, they'll interchange with no problem.

if you open up a 8708 and compare the internals to the 7727, you'll see incredible similarities... the same situation with the 7730 and 8707. technically, the 16149396 is even more similar to the 8708 than the 7727 is due to the extra SRAM already being present. the 8708 is essentially a 7727 with the FMD2 chip, extra SRAM and second injector driver present. those are the only real differences.

[1project2many]

I didn't see this thread until now. The Thirdgen success story cannot be independently verified. People are looking for a quick and easy replacement for the 7749 but that ecm is not yet in play. However, it could be.

AFAIK $8B is a 4 cylinder only mask. All of the Q4 based cals I've looked at are this way. It may work without code changes but you'll have to adjust the displayed calibration tables so the RPM based values read correctly. Also be sure that any constants that represent an RPM value are correct. RPM should be 1/2 of four cyl value for V8 and 3/4 of four cyl for six cylinders. Wire up the four distributor circuits (Bypass, REF, EST, and GND) to the same pins as used by DIS and set reference angle, max advance, and max retard values to match your favorite V8 cal and you're good to go.

$6B is a unique mask that will work with either the 7749 or the 8707 and might be a better beginning point. Cals made in $6B might turn out to be portable to other V8 ecms. I have connected a 7807 to my ecm test bench and tried to make it "run" using $58 with no modifications. I was unsuccessful. There is code in $6B to detect additional hardware (probably FMU2) and initialize it if found. My investigations ended with this.

Don't forget that you're competing with Lotus Esprit owners when buying 7807 / 7808 ecm's. Price may not be as much of an object to them.

[dave w]

I've data logged one test on the 1228708 TBI System. Not a happy result.

I got the following Error Codes:
Code 26 – QDM
Code 41 – 1X Missing
Code 43 – ESC
Code 65 – Injector

I have no idea what code 26 QDM is? The real problem error code I think is the Code 41 - 1X Missing. I'm thinking the small cap HEI is a problem because the crank position sensor is not being used? I'm thinking Codes 43 and 65 are related to the Code 41.

I need to put the 1228708 TBI System testing on hold for now. I think I'll try using the $58 and $58 wiring shown in my first post.

dave w

[RobertISaar]

26 = one of the outputs that the ECM is commanding is not matching what it being commanded... example being that a shift light being commanded on and the bulb is missing? that will trigger it. the Quad 4 beretta guys have this issue when they try and run a L-body BIN.

1X missing is also an issue.... i think the ECM will still deliver fuel, but it will be all 4 injectors at the same time or it will guess as to which pair of injectors to fire. this would be if it were still running a quad4. with 2-injector TBI, ???

ESC.... probably not seeing the right A/D level.

injector error... no idea, i've never actually seen that one set. i would have to open alldata to get a description as to why it would set.