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Thread: Tuning options for Dodge Mopar

  1. #106
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    Hi 34blazer thank you for the invite to this forum if you need any info on the jtec controller or any automotive electronics just send me an email. I have been in the automotive electronics repair business for 10 years and have any info you would ever need for the jtec or any other module you can think of I just started a automotive electronics reverse engineering youtube channel. I just started to reverse engineer the jtec controller Ill be passing on my 10 years of knowledge I have on these units so please subscribe thanks alot. You can find my youtube channel at "Erin Laws".

  2. #107
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    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  3. #108
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    Yes search Erin Laws my account pic is an android , search for dodge jtec computer repair you will also find it

  4. #109
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    Welcome! Cant tell you how happy I am to see some progress!

    http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread...-tunning/page4
    Last edited by 34blazer; 05-10-2015 at 10:53 PM.
    '86 Grand National

  5. #110
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    hi, guys.. just registered after following this whole JTEC reprogramming thread.. it sucks to see that good progress came to a grinding halt..
    hopefully, i just may be able to help and get this show back on the road...

    i noticed that the JTEC wiki isn't working - except for links to a couple pictures..

    so, hopefully between here and speedfreaks, this can get worked out..

    as far as this SCT company, it looks like they're just flashing calibrations, rather than the whole eeprom..
    does anyone know if the pinout for this motorola z3 processor exists (or as least for this processors' maskset)
    need to find out if this eeprom has the programming voltage and reset pins going to the processor.
    (can we just get the eeprom to drop into programming, or does it need to be bootstrapped like the motorola ME7 / 7.2 / 7.5 ecus?)

    i know a lot of the newer chrysler pcms' use that SCI bus specifically for programming - not sure if the older ones even have that bus...

    so, if we have a pinout of the processor that's in there, and if the correct programming pins go from the eeprom to the processor, it's just a matter of finding all the calls to the port that controls those pins, and working backwards from there.
    usually for 'security', a lot of these obdii programmable pcm / ecu's will use some completely screwed up sequence of commands to enter a programming mode..
    GM uses a seed / key for security access
    Subaru uses a pin that goes to B+ voltage
    volvo actually uses the central electrical module to do all the dirty work - it puts all the modules in the car into a 'bootstrap' mode, all the data is sent to the CEM; which then decides if the data is good / checksummed correctly, then it will program the corresponding module, then reset all the modules in the car to take them out of 'bootstrap'
    (BTW - you can just bootstrap the eeprom in a volvo ECU, and directly read / write to the ECU via a basic K-line connection)
    The older nissan JTEC ecu's had commands you could send via diag line to read out the ecu - one byte at a time

    I guess one obvious way to make this easier would be to record the argument between the PCM and a J2534 during a standard calibration update.

    The maps, axis, and scaling information is a pretty straightforward thing to do. I don't understand some of these other posts by 'those in the know' about the stock PCM not having the 'resolution' to do this or that...
    part of the formula that the pcm / ecu uses to calculate how long to fire the injectors is 'injector deadtime' - this is the value you use to change the size of the injector - you change that, and everything else on the fuel side gets scaled accordingly.

    using a stock pcm / ecu, you actually have a very good amount of adjustment (plus all the factory safeguards) - oh, and for those with OBDII, when inspection time comes ALL the OBDII test calibration stuff is in there too... hell you can set it to run all your monitors at idle, in 5 minutes if you want.

    I am completely hellbent on being able to reprogram this pcm....
    it's a motorola processor - so BDM is a viable option - even to just 'watch' what the processor is doing

    I understand (in a way) what the 'companies' are trying to do.. "I know something you don't know... unless you want to pay.." I understand they have overhead, development costs, marketing, and of course; since the only people who can really afford some of this 'tuning company' stuff, pretty much piss money, they need to make a hefty sum since only a few people will have enough money to buy...

    Dilemma did a open-source project for SAABS - T5 suite, T7 suite and T8 Suite. sure, if you didn't have the technical knowledge to do it yourself, most of the higher-end cookie-cutter tunes from companies were between $120-$350. That is a much more realistic price for your average person to pay..

    And, another reason this should be obtainable info - if the car companies have their way (a couple car companies are whining to congress) - vehicle pcm / ecu's may be soon covered under the DMCA....

    if anyone has copies of the stuff that got posted to JTEC.INFO, it would be great to be able to get copies....

    Even if this PCM needs to be bench-flashed with some type of harness, it really needs to be figured out!
    I'm sick of having vehicles with ECU's that can't be screwed with! I just finished my Discovery I ecu.. there really was NO info on it out there - thankfully, it just used 2 socketed EPROMs..

  6. #111
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    The maps, axis, and scaling information is a pretty straightforward thing to do. I don't understand some of these other posts by 'those in the know' about the stock PCM not having the 'resolution' to do this or that...
    I can only wonder if it's similar to GM hardware in that issues exist in A/D converter resolution. I've put a 3 BAR calibration into a GM box successfully as have many others, but there is a much larger range between cells when this is done. Adding more table entries does not overcome this. I didn't find my application to be difficult to tune but then again my understanding is that Dodge / Jeep programming relies heavily on calculated curves vs tables?

    I have an interest in Jtec as I have a friend with an OBDII Jeep that is installing a stroker engine. We are discussing using a GM ECM in his vehicle but it would be neat to be able to work with the OE controller. I also have a Jeep which will get a stroker but I'm dedicated to using a GM computer.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    I can only wonder if it's similar to GM hardware in that issues exist in A/D converter resolution. I've put a 3 BAR calibration into a GM box successfully as have many others, but there is a much larger range between cells when this is done. Adding more table entries does not overcome this. I didn't find my application to be difficult to tune but then again my understanding is that Dodge / Jeep programming relies heavily on calculated curves vs tables?

    I have an interest in Jtec as I have a friend with an OBDII Jeep that is installing a stroker engine. We are discussing using a GM ECM in his vehicle but it would be neat to be able to work with the OE controller. I also have a Jeep which will get a stroker but I'm dedicated to using a GM computer.
    well, these boxes with all the wires don't really care what manufacturer is stamped on the motor.... signals in, function out!
    a couple good examples i've seen over the years - DSM Eclipse ecu running turboed nissan 240sx KA24DE motor..
    SAAB ecu running DSM 4G63, SAAB ecu running nissan RB20DET...

    The trionic (SAAB ECU) guys have had it a little easier than the rest of us - all the table notation, axis values, and scalar information is nicely documented, and indexed IN THE ECU ITSELF!
    check out "Reverse that Trionic" - https://code.google.com/archive/p/re...default/source
    the Trionic utilizes a motorola processor as well, and these guys have done a INCREDIBLE job documenting all their work!
    They have all the BDM code / commands documented awesomely as well.

    What has been done with the Trionic; is nothing short of converting it to almost standalone status! what do you want? 4 Bar map? Done! 1500cc injectors? just a mouse click away. Perfect control of 35+ Psi of boost? No problem!

    The ONLY thing preventing this ecu from being used for everything...... Immobilizer... *Although, IF you still have a account on MHH Auto, and ask REAL-Nice-Like; there are people who have actually removed the immo code from the ecu.. you better have a valid project to back it up, or they don't want to hear it (For obvious reasons)

    I actually have a closely guarded BIN from one of my project SAAB ECU's (worked for a specialty SAAB / Volvo shop for about a decade) I was going to swap a turbo 2.3 SAAB motor into a S10 Chassis.. (Just couldn't find a chassis worth working with - I live in New England - nuff said...) They're both GM, The motor would've bolted right up to the trans with VERY minor modification...

    Now, after my experience with my 87 Toyota Supra MKIII - the ONLY place on the planet that could actually do any type of real tuning on this stock ECU was up in canada... and all said and done, would've had to drop around $1500 for a daughterboard and basic tuning - ON ENCRYPTED CHIPS - after all that $$$, I still couldn't make any changes to the ecu myself.....

    The BEST part of all that I want to do with the JTEC isn't even for myself.... I've got a bunch of friends with jeeps, and usually i'm the 'man with the plan' - used to be mazdas, fords, and nissans... those were relatively easy.....

    Another option COULD possibly be - "Calumsult" - guy called Calum developed a programmable rom daughterboard for a bunch of the nissan ecus - could program and datalog in real time - via usb.. Swapping the EEPROM for a "daughterboard" like that is a possibility as well..
    I'll have to shoot him a e-mail and see if that is something that would be feasable..
    Hell, i guess just getting the schematic for a simple USB chip programmer and stuffing it onto the EEPROM could be a solution as well....

    One of my favorite ECU mods / hacks / improvements to date was for the EPROM style ECUs - a daughterboard of sorts with a push-button rotary switch - you copy your program code to a much larger EPROM (27c256 -> 29F1024) and switch the high bits for the address line.... *POOF* now you can switch roms on the fly (since the ecu already read the program code when you started the motor - now it's just reading data from the tables) - it WOULD occasionally hiccup when you switched roms... but that wasn't really a problem.....

    Now it seems that there are a LOT of people swapping to these LT1 GM ECUs for stuff that really shouldn't need that much work.. (i.e. stroker conversion)
    what changes do you REALLY need to make? Obviously you need to change your injector deadtime (more displacement -> more fuel needed), and i'm pretty sure those motors like the timing advanced a bit on the bottom end; as well as a lower rev limiter (you don't really want to wind up a stroked motor like a honda)

    Even getting a 'donor' PCM, opening it, removing the EEPROM and installing a socket for a surface-mount EEPROM STILL seems like WAY less work than trying to get all the signals right for a GM ECU...

    And once again, what about the OBDII crowd? The PCM stores the VIN - and being a programmer AND a state inspector (and having been bored and reverse-engineered the inspecton machine code) Regardless of the year, the state's machine tries a couple of tricks to read any VIN or calibration number in the ECU, as well as the ECU (bus network) ID. Regardless of whether or not it conviently pops the vin up to populate the forms in the inspection machine, it does have quite the conversation with the PCM / ECU.. Along with the fact that between a GM PCM, and a Chrysler PCM, the I/M monitors are going to be different... This WILL set a red flag either with the state or whatever company is running the inspection program.
    In a lot of states, now if the OBDII port doesn't work at all, and it's newer than 96 - it gets denied inspection as well as getting flagged with your states' DMV and DOT - It looks like you're trying to "clean scan" another vehicle to get a sticker for yours...

    I have at my disposal - DSO oscilloscopes, logic probes, EEPROM reader / writers, BDM interfaces, a X-Prog M, Bus pirate, and various Motorola (Freescale) simulators and emulators, a ton of ECU rom editors (winols, etc), and a Launch 'SensorBox' (can record and play back up to 15 running engine signals)

    I however do NOT currently have - Any JTEC or JTEC+ PCMs, EEPROM dumps, Datasheets, or Processor pinouts..

    I have taken a 96/97 (can't remember which year it was from - had the non-flexible board inside) apart, and found just by observation that the architecture seems to have a main 16-bit Motorola Z3 (the Z3 note is from another thread where the presenter showed his work in determining that it is in fact a Z3 processor, not a Z2 - like the current 'belief') processor and 2 8-bit Motorola MC68HClID3 and MC68HCllK4 processors that are what control fuel and spark delivery.
    Makes sense to use that 16bit architecture to the fullest - it looks like spark may be controlled by the high order bytes and fuel is controlled by the low order bytes.
    (the 16bits of processing are split into 2 8-bit paths, that control 2 8-bit microcontrollers to do all the dirty work..)
    The MC68HC16Z3 main processor has a 256k external EEPROM; where as the 8-bit microcontrollers seem to be OTP (one-time programmable), and with very limited memory in them; they are most likely programmed with mathematical formulas rather than actual program code.
    From the research that the person on Speedfreaks was doing, it looks like a lot of the incoming signals get multiplexed to all 3 processors.
    The setup kinda looks like the main processor is sending the workhorses basic calculated values, which the workhorses finish the math, and perform the function..
    (I.E. the fuel 8-bit processor gets sent injector pulse time, injector deadtime, and timing values - which probably will continue to repeat the function for those values until the data changes)
    So, there's one scalar that we should have access to - Injector deadtime.. the controller NEEDS to know how long to keep the injector off until the next injector fire occurance. This is the value that lets you change your injector size, usually with NO OTHER changes needed..
    The processor needs the Deadtime value to be able to calculate how long to have the injector open.

    Another big one seems to be the whole MAP sensor thing..
    If you REALLY feel like doing actual algebra (Mind you, I have a Bachelors' degree in computer science, and programming ECUs is THE FIRST TIME since school ended that i ever actually needed to use algebra!!! - No, you don't use algebra in the 'REAL' world)
    You can do the math and figure out the percentage of difference between a 1-BAR, 2-BAR, 2.5-BAR (GM / SAAB), and 3-BAR map sensor.
    Now, if you know your original injector size, you multiply that percentage to your injector size, and now you know what size injectors to throw in to use a whatever-BAR map sensor with 'NO' programming required....

    This would work in a PERFECT world.... too bad we don't live there... it will work - kind-of.. idle will be crap, and it'll run on the rich side.
    any trims the PCM will try to make will be drastic - it doesn't know the new Injector Deadtime......
    But, it WILL work - to a point...

    Let's NOT try to cross THAT bridge...

    There are enough people here that want to see this done - on a scale that would make it available to everyone!

    Don't get me wrong - I understand that the tuning 'companies' are providing a valuable service, and they DO have overhead...
    If I want to be able to tweak my PCM to have a bit more pep and better fuel economy, I should be able to.
    If i'm trying to use a stock or heavily modified motor to put out all it's worth; running on the edge of detonation, even i'm going to go to a proven, reliable tuner with a dyno...

    The object of this is NOT to try to compete with or take business AWAY from these companies, it boils down to: maybe I want to screw around with the box that runs my engine.. when i'm ready to build a race car, or some type of purpose-built vehicle that will constantly get the crap beat out of it on a track or in the woods, i'm going to see a tuner with a dyno.. THAT'S when (and only when) i'm going to let myself get pounded out of over $800....

    If this project costs me $1000 to complete, and say some hardware is needed for others to do the same thing, i'm not going to try to milk $1000 out of each person..
    if the hardware costs me $30 to produce, i'd charge like $40 for it - not $400+

    Doing this is a HOBBY! it's FUN to find the answer to a complex riddle.... It's even MORE fun to bitch-slap a piece of 'uncrackable / unmodifiable' hardware to bend to your will!


    Please don't mind my ranting - 2-days without sleep, wacked out on my ADHD meds usually causes this :)

    Links / sources:
    CalumSult: http://calumsult.wikidot.com/
    Reverse-that-trionic: [COLOR=#ffffff]https://code.google.com/archive/p/reverse-that-trionic
    T5, T7, and T8 suites: A quick google search "T5 suite" can find you a copy of it
    WinOLS:http://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/software/
    Tuning Parts / Daughterboards: grid.co.jp
    Last edited by turbo_neoffroad; 02-19-2016 at 10:48 AM.

  8. #113
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    Well, it sounds like you have the training, experience, knowledge, time, and motivation to get this done. I'll just stand by...

  9. #114
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    The inability of regular "joe's" like us to tune the Jeep ecm's is what is driving me to swap to a GM ecm in the future. I am building a stroker for my YJ right now (block is at the machine shop) and I want to be able to tune it to get it's max potential. However there is pretty much nothing out there for regular people like us to use. If there was tunerpro XDF's, ADX's, and a flashing program, I would love to keep it jeep. I wouldn't care to convert to the (OBD2) JTEC to be able to tune. I currently still have the stock (OBD1) SBEC II ecm in my YJ, and honostly, I wouldnt mind being able to tune it, as I feel they are actually really good ecm's. Just being eprom based and encased inside the goo makes them a pain to work on.
    But converting to the JTEC wouldn't be that bad. The ecm's and wiring harnesses are plentiful in the junkyards, plus most all the stock sensors would work, so the swap would be pretty easy.

    Converting to the gm ecm, I will loose sequential injection and be batch fire instead. But I will gain the ability to run DIS by simply making and mounting a reluctor wheel.
    So it looks like for now, the gm ecm is going to be the easiest and cheapest route, since I already have the hardware and software to tune them with. I'm planning on running a 1227727.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  10. #115
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    Did you end up with a copy of D-Cal for SBEC? Have you tried it??
    Turbonator and MPTune also exist:
    http://www.boostbutton.com/turbonato...tor_and_mptune


    GMECM and SEFI is possible. GN ecm allows for six cyl SFI, DIS (not necessary), and uses MAF for faster tuning. Lotsa software available and lotsa help, even some custom code.

  11. #116
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    I did do a little searching on the matter, but it kinda seems like that tuning software is made for the turbo cars. I found a thread talking about the jeep ecm, but it appears it is all different than the car versions. If I understand what they are saying, it seems like the jeep ecm would need a different file or something to work with their software (kinda like a not having a XDF for tunerpro)
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...herokee-Tuning

    Which service number and code mask GM ecm are you referring to? I would kinda like to stay OBD1 and chip ecm's so I can use my current equipment (autoprom)
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  12. #117
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    Many of the SFI Buicks are equipped with a C3. The early turbo cars use a 1226459, '86-'87 turbos get 1227148, while the NA versions use 1226461. There were a lot of support tools for the 7148.

    It looks like quite a bit of work has already been done for the Jeep controllers. But it would take time to finish which I, alas, have not.

  13. #118
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    Well this looks promising. But I'm not going to get too excited this time, I hope you don't take it the wrong way. A few people have claimed they can tune the JTEC and will share, but it seems they were all talk, and up and left. I would love to see a real tuning possibility with the JTEC, and possibly see some integrated knock support for those who would want to boost.

    Welcome!
    '86 Grand National

  14. #119
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    All this just sound great!, if it can be done...

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by mekkis View Post
    Also, that I'm getting from my literature (attached) is that the 96-98 2.5/3.9/4.0/5.2/5.9 JTEC blank hardware part number is 05014152AA (V10 is 05014153AA), and from the couple binaries I have the code changes a bit across those years. FYI, 99+ is all over the place although 05018488AA is the most common for 5.2/5.9, but not used at all for the Jeeps. I think (?) it may reflect ECUs equipped with the factory anti-theft/IMMO vs the ones without.
    Ivr got a 98 ram 2500 v10. Any ideas?

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